Southwest's magic formula: low costs, low fares and high pay

[SWA/FO]

SWA/FO obviously doesn't know anyone in revenue management (I doubt the he even works at SWA).

Say again? I spend all this time talking about SWA and you doubt I work here? Whats up with dat?

the SWA/FO..

 

[Flopgut]

An interesting viewpoint - I think most of our FAs recognise that they did pretty well for themselves last time around. They are a vital component in our sucess, and deserve to be (and are) well compensated for it. You won't tell us where you work so I think you are just stirring the pot here. Suffice it to say that labor relations here don't work the same way they work where ever it is that you work. We may not have seven part harmony but we are singing in the same key.

Flopgut, we've been around this block before bud, why the flamebait? What is it about SWA that brings out the worst in you? You jump in on these SWA threads looking for a fight and then get all huffy when SWA/FO gives you one. I'm not trying to mess up your hobby, but every once in a while I snap and have to rejoin the fight.

SWA is a company that is run to make a profit, the employees are well treated and well paid. We did not and are not killing this industry (or ANY companies in it). Stop blaming us for your problems. If you need better spacing into SAT - then ask for it. If you are underpaid while your mngt steales your pension then work with your union, call your congressman, but STOP BLAMING US. I'm just trying to make a living flying airplanes just like you. SWA treats me fairly and the traveling public fairly.

I hope you can tell I have changed my tone a great deal. I laugh about stuff SWA/FO says and I hope he knows Im giving him crap in a more good natured way.

I listen to the stuff you guys say and cant believe some of it. I dont think you are handling your new status as highest paid pilots very well. Its like you dont even think you have any other employee groups Your attitudes are going to poison the well if your not careful. I dont think its flamebait, our FAs were discussing pay with yours, they had to get a little tough to get what they have now. They asked me about pilot pay and I declined to answer. But I could tell they were aware SWA pilots made a lot more than I did, and that was not the case with their pay vs our FAs. So if you guys think they are going to raise fares to cover your pay, wont they do it for all your workgroups? If six percent covers your needs then will they raise fares 36% to cover all six unions? Because unless you can get the other groups to believe your pay is more special than theirs they are going to want a raise.

Ive said 10 times on here I work for CAL. Im surprised you dont remember that. I just dont put it out there like you guys do. We are all pilots, I like to debate the merits of legacy vs LCC instead of specific employers.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Guy's I'm not mad, I just look at what I see and make my decisions based on the information available. The only reason I don't intend to reapply is because I don't think you're future is as bright as you do. I may be wrong. I don't think Southwest is bad and I'm not bitter. I wish you well.

Good day.

 

[TAZ MAN]

Guy's I'm not mad, I just look at what I see and make my decisions based on the information available. The only reason I don't intend to reapply is because I don't think you're future is as bright as you do. I may be wrong. I don't think Southwest is bad and I'm not bitter. I wish you well.

Good day.

And flying for a company whos success depends on the success of Delta and United is a bright future. Does not Skywest have a contract with those two carriers? In other words, Skywests success depends on those contracts?

If your eyeing Fedex and UPS then you are considering jobs that have more certainty.

 

[chase]

Mach 80 touched on a key component that the author didn't grasp. Here are some of the latest numbers that to the average public don't compute, but to folks who fly the skies for a living understand completely. My only regret is comparisions numbers on some of the categories isn't commonly shared. Here goes:

Avg # of workdays per month in May '06: 13.5 days

Avg duty day length: 8 hrs, 40 minutes (consider again this number includes 30 minutes prior to push & 30 minutes after push, it becomes 7 hrs 40 minutes)

This is the kicker:

Avg block hours per day: 6 hrs, 9 minutes (in the 7 hrs of 40 minutes of time that you could be flying, you are actually flying 6 hrs, 9 minutes...the lack of wasted time is the key...many keys to this success formula, i.e. route structure, very flexible scheduling (no PBS) rules already, only FAR caps, type of folks one hires, etc.)

Avg "trips for pay" per work day: 7.3 TFP (SWA is paid by the "trip", not by the hour)

 

[ivauir]

Clearly you do not understand SWA

I hope you can tell I have changed my tone a great deal. I laugh about stuff SWA/FO says and I hope he knows Im giving him crap in a more good natured way.

I listen to the stuff you guys say and cant believe some of it. There are a lot of posers on this site - don't believe it! I dont think you are handling your new status as highest paid pilots very well. I don't think we should be the highest paid - a bigger airplane ought to pay more Its like you dont even think you have any other employee groups HUH? Your attitudes are going to poison the well if your not careful. You are just making stuff up here - pure flame bait I dont think its flamebait, our FAs were discussing pay with yours, they had to get a little tough to get what they have now. They asked me about pilot pay and I declined to answer. But I could tell they were aware SWA pilots made a lot more than I did, and that was not the case with their pay vs our FAs. So if you guys think they are going to raise fares to cover your pay, wont they do it for all your workgroups? If six percent covers your needs then will they raise fares 36% to cover all six unions? Because unless you can get the other groups to believe your pay is more special than theirs they are going to want a raise. Actually, many of these groups took raises when the pilots acepted a freeze. The FAs got a huge raise in their last negotiations, the only raises the pilots have recieved are tied to profitability and not that substantial.

Ive said 10 times on here I work for CAL. Im surprised you dont remember that. I just dont put it out there like you guys do. We are all pilots, I like to debate the merits of legacy vs LCC instead of specific employers.

Are you under the impression that we have gotten or are asking for some huge raise? The pilot group has taken several forms of deferred compensation in the past and now we are reaping the rewards. Our FA's (for example) insisted on hard pay this last round - if they resent the pilot's profitability raise, then the fault is wth their union, not the pilots or SWA.

Many of us have much more at stake then what is reported on our W2s.Our up coming negotiations are not a great subject for me to debate here, but don't expect to see a big fight or a big raise. This pilot group uderstands our effect on the company.
Again, you are carring on about our attitudes, but I don't see it. I think you are picking a fight.

We still produce an hour of block time for less than you. We are highest paid because of wage cuts elsewhere, not any "spike" in our pay. Don't even try to paint us as arrogant, choke the golden goose types.

 

[Big Slick]

Hello McFly!

You're not the highest paid.

 

[ivauir]

Hello McFly!

You're not the highest paid.

Well Biff it wasn't me saying that we were. Go go argue with Flopgut.

 

[Flopgut]

Are you under the impression that we have gotten or are asking for some huge raise? The pilot group has taken several forms of deferred compensation in the past and now we are reaping the rewards. Our FA's (for example) insisted on hard pay this last round - if they resent the pilot's profitability raise, then the fault is wth their union, not the pilots or SWA.

Many of us have much more at stake then what is reported on our W2s.Our up coming negotiations are not a great subject for me to debate here, but don't expect to see a big fight or a big raise. This pilot group uderstands our effect on the company.
Again, you are carring on about our attitudes, but I don't see it. I think you are picking a fight.

We still produce an hour of block time for less than you. We are highest paid because of wage cuts elsewhere, not any "spike" in our pay. Don't even try to paint us as arrogant, choke the golden goose types.

Ooooh, big angry red words. Scary.

I don't think it too soon to call it, we have a burgeoning class of egomaniacs at SWA. I think you've got the golden goose in, at least, a half nelson.

If every SWA employee group (across the board) enjoyed the same percentage higher pay that SWA pilots have over legacy pilots, are you going to produce a cheaper block hour?

 

[SWA/FO]

I laugh about stuff SWA/FO says and I hope he knows Im giving him crap in a more good natured way.

the SWA/FO laughs too... he has told me so. Even if he doesn't work at SWA.

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