Southwest slam clicks- c'mon captains....

[PCL_128]

We'll have a better idea of the real long term plans, and delta will have leapfrogged us in regards to pay after already having better retirement. The other legacies will be closer to us for same size airplanes as well, if not exceed.

Pattern bargaining.

You still haven't described where your leverage will come from. Your problem is that your pilots aren't willing to do what is necessary in order to generate leverage. Lagging behind Delta and other carriers doesn't generate leverage unless you can get a strong strike vote to take the NMB. Otherwise it's just a talking point at the bargaining table, and the other side can continue to stall for an eternity.

 

[27 driver]

You still haven't described where your leverage will come from. Your problem is that your pilots aren't willing to do what is necessary in order to generate leverage. Lagging behind Delta and other carriers doesn't generate leverage unless you can get a strong strike vote to take the NMB. Otherwise it's just a talking point at the bargaining table, and the other side can continue to stall for an eternity.

A strike vote means exactly ZERO. The NMB will never release an airline the size of SWA. They carry more domestic pax then anyone else. You know that PCL.

 

[PCL_128]

A perfect example of how pilots don't understand how the NMB works. Yes, the NMB will most certainly release an airline the size of SWA......as long as they're convinced that a deal will result from the release instead of a strike. In other words, you need to be close to a deal (few items on the table), you need to have steadfast pilot unity so that management believes your threat is credible, and you have to have union leadership that the NMB has confidence will be reasonable and know a deal when they see it. The NMB won't release a large airline if those conditions aren't met, because the odds are too high that it will lead to a strike rather than a deal.

A strike vote is incredibly important in that formula. It shows both management and the NMB that the pilot group is unified and the leadership is capable of executing. If a strike vote comes in at 85%, game over. Management knows they can break a strike, and the NMB knows that management will try. But if a strike vote comes in at 99%, management knows that the lines will hold, at least for a few weeks, and the NMB knows that management is unlikely to want to weather a strike for that long. It's a perfect recipe for getting a deal during a cooling off period instead of getting to a strike.

Pilots are too focused on wanting to strike. A strike is not the goal. The goal is to get to a deal. The threat of a strike is just a tool used to reach that goal. But if you don't have that credible threat, then a bean counter like Gary is just going to keep running the clock as long as possible to save the company tons of money. You need to start working on generating a credible threat. You're not dealing with Herb anymore.

 

[waveflyer]

So in your head the only leverage is to strike or a real threat to strike...

Once again, you got the horns bc you messed with the entire bull- not just messed with GK-

By your logic we'd have never gained a contract in our existence

You do post with arrogance on the subject- but you yourself have never won a contract, or worked with a satisfied group of pilots-
You can say we don't know what we're talking about, but try and remember that you have had no success at SWA where many of us have shared much.

 

[PCL_128]

You really are clueless. And no, I'm certainly not saying that a strike is the only source of leverage. There are so many sources of leverage that they can't be listed. But you haven't provided even a single example of where you think your leverage is going to come from. Stick to what you know.

 

[Crash Pad]

Well they do have a pretty sweet contract using there zero leverage strategy.

AirTran has a far worse contract that involved picketing, strike votes, etc. I think we also got our new contract when somebody bought us, which I know is totally unrelated. I mean the company stalled for five years then after the announcement they suddenly caved to our manufactured leverage. Weird.

 

[FIREMAN]

The company didn't cave the pilot group did.

 

[twepilot]

Toad Horse-chit talking about leverage. Laughing my ass off! Or wait maybe he means the kind of leverage you get when you pre-agree to whatever may come out in an agreement.

RV

 

[HowardBorden]

A perfect example of how pilots don't understand how the NMB works. Yes, the NMB will most certainly release an airline the size of SWA......as long as they're convinced that a deal will result from the release instead of a strike. In other words, you need to be close to a deal (few items on the table), you need to have steadfast pilot unity so that management believes your threat is credible, and you have to have union leadership that the NMB has confidence will be reasonable and know a deal when they see it. The NMB won't release a large airline if those conditions aren't met, because the odds are too high that it will lead to a strike rather than a deal.

A strike vote is incredibly important in that formula. It shows both management and the NMB that the pilot group is unified and the leadership is capable of executing. If a strike vote comes in at 85%, game over. Management knows they can break a strike, and the NMB knows that management will try. But if a strike vote comes in at 99%, management knows that the lines will hold, at least for a few weeks, and the NMB knows that management is unlikely to want to weather a strike for that long. It's a perfect recipe for getting a deal during a cooling off period instead of getting to a strike.

Pilots are too focused on wanting to strike. A strike is not the goal. The goal is to get to a deal. The threat of a strike is just a tool used to reach that goal. But if you don't have that credible threat, then a bean counter like Gary is just going to keep running the clock as long as possible to save the company tons of money. You need to start working on generating a credible threat. You're not dealing with Herb anymore.

That may have been a strategy at AirTran, but the NMB, management and SWAPA all know that a strike is a hollow threat because even if we were released by the NMB we would be defeated by the PEB.

The Presidential Emergency Board would surely step in and halt self help because the whole purpose of such a board is to determine if: an unresolved dispute between a carrier and a labor organization or other representative threatens "substantially to interrupt interstate commerce to a degree such as to deprive any section of the country of essential transportation service."

But of course you already knew that.

 

[HowardBorden]

A perfect example of how pilots don't understand how the NMB works. Yes, the NMB will most certainly release an airline the size of SWA......as long as they're convinced that a deal will result from the release instead of a strike. In other words, you need to be close to a deal (few items on the table), you need to have steadfast pilot unity so that management believes your threat is credible, and you have to have union leadership that the NMB has confidence will be reasonable and know a deal when they see it. The NMB won't release a large airline if those conditions aren't met, because the odds are too high that it will lead to a strike rather than a deal.

A strike vote is incredibly important in that formula. It shows both management and the NMB that the pilot group is unified and the leadership is capable of executing. If a strike vote comes in at 85%, game over. Management knows they can break a strike, and the NMB knows that management will try. But if a strike vote comes in at 99%, management knows that the lines will hold, at least for a few weeks, and the NMB knows that management is unlikely to want to weather a strike for that long. It's a perfect recipe for getting a deal during a cooling off period instead of getting to a strike.

Pilots are too focused on wanting to strike. A strike is not the goal. The goal is to get to a deal. The threat of a strike is just a tool used to reach that goal. But if you don't have that credible threat, then a bean counter like Gary is just going to keep running the clock as long as possible to save the company tons of money. You need to start working on generating a credible threat. You're not dealing with Herb anymore.

That may have been a strategy at AirTran, but the NMB, management and SWAPA all know that a strike is a hollow threat because even if we were released by the NMB we would be defeated by the PEB.

The Presidential Emergency Board would surely step in and halt self help because the whole purpose of such a board is to determine if an unresolved dispute between a carrier and a labor organization threatens "substantially to interrupt interstate commerce to a degree such as to deprive any section of the country of essential transportation service."

But of course you already knew that.