• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.
  • Logbook Pro for Apple iOS version 8.1 is now available on the App Store. Major update including signature endorsements and dark/light theme support. Click here to install now.

Southwest Questions

tommyboy

New member
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
2
Total Time
2200
Just finishing up my requirements for Southwest and planning on getting the type rating done this fall. Wanted to know if any Southwest folks could comment on new salary rates, what the bases look like seniority wise, and what a normal month, if there is such a thing, looks like as far as the flying schedule goes. So far, everything I've heard is that it's an awesome company to work for, and the financials certainly seem to back this up. Thanks and hope some of the poolies get calls soon.
 

Slug

SWA Line Swine
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Posts
496
Total Time
5000
back search

Tommy,

I'm just a lowly poolie so I can't brief as a SWA pilot, and not to blow you off, but there have been some good posts on the exact questions you asked. DHampton started one on the seniority question a few weeks ago. If you just search for SWA seniority or SWA pay rates you might find exactly what you're looking for. The search button is up at the top of the page.

Good Luck

Slug
 

shagadelic

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2002
Posts
309
Total Time
10k+
To make it easy, here is a "best case" (depending on profitibility) if you were to start on 9/1/02. Most folks average 100 trips per month. You can fly much more (120 or more) if you want no life and live in domicile.

1st Year: 35.40/ trip.
2nd Year: 64.27/ trip
3rd Year: 81.17/ trip
4th Year: 93.63/ trip
5th Year: 104.25/trip or:
5th Year: 160.39/trip if you upgrade this year

Also, if hired on that date you will receive 4032 stock options. They will vest 3 months after your hire date (on 12/1/02 for this hypothetical). What that means is if the stock price on 12/1/02 is $15.00 and stays $15.00 they are worthless. But if they go to $25 say in a year or two, then they will be worth $40,320. ($10 X 4032). If the stock makes it to $35 in a few years, then the options will be worth $80, 640 and so on. You may cash them in anytime you want (so long as they have value!) But you have only 8 years to exercise your options.

Hope this helps.
 

PTinbound

Kool Aid CEO
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Posts
264
Total Time
8000
Thanks, Shag. You are a credit to the pilot gene pool. After 13 years of being a dedicated wannabe I finally understand stock options. Now, for those of us who absolutely aren't going to be on the property on 9-1-02, do you have any idea how many options the poolies might get if hired ??? (Feb. or March '03)?
(I'm also guessing this is based on the proposed interim contract.)
As always, good rumors are always welcome.
 

tommyboy

New member
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
2
Total Time
2200
Thanks alot for the info shag. Especially with the stock options, I had heard alot about that, but that's the best explanation I've seen. Slug I'm going to try that search now, new on the site so just getting all this figured out.
 

JPB

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Posts
83
Total Time
6500
Great post

Outstanding post. it s nice to get any kind of solid numbers when you are in the pool. (do you have a class date for me?) ;)
Thanks for your time Shag
hope to be part of the team soon
 

OakRBust

Still Lucky as Hell
Joined
Apr 6, 2002
Posts
259
Total Time
10 k
Shag... Great Post!!


I really am enjoying this whole pool thing, BUT i definitely hope I get out before I have to become a member of the Polar Bears club. I guess with 4032 stock options I could buy one sweet wetsuit!!

I can't wait either way!!!!


You go JB... come on and shake that big hiring tree!!!!!:cool:
 

TriStar_drvr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
427
Total Time
12000+
Shagadelic,

Are those rates/trip and stock options from the new contract proposal or from the current contract? Also what is the monthly trip guarantee? Finally, are there any contractual guidelines to your profit sharing? Or is management under no obligation to pay out any profit sharing "bonuses."

I'm trying to see how much further ATA pilots will fall behind SWA pilots if we ratify the TA before us.

The numbers you posted are much higher than what our MEC published in a contract comparison sent out to us last year. If you get a chance to reply before July 2, I'd appreciate it. Our MEC is hosting a "road show" on that date, and they are going to have some explaining to do.

Looks like I should dust off the old resume when I become eligible to apply to SWA again (I had a bad day in Dallas a year ago).

Thanks in advance for the info. You've already provided enough ammo to put our MEC on the hot seat.

Brad
 

StarrBuck

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Posts
111
Total Time
15k
Ok, I think I'm a little dense when it comes to stocks.. When you talk about "stock options" does this mean that you have the opportunity to buy the stocks at your vestment date, or they are somehow "given" to you?

Thanks for the info!! I'll get this straight one of these days!!

S.B.

Also, Does SWA have a Stock Purchase Program? I know some airlines allow you to purchase stocks at a discount once per quarter..?
 

xhercdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
80
Total Time
5300
Shag's numbers are from the proposal. Scuttlebutt is that it's got about a 60% "approval rating" in the polls so far. Current rates for comparison...

F/O
Yr 1: $33.89 (9/1/02)
Yr 2: 58.89 (9/1/03)
Yr 3: 68.84 (9/1/04)

Brand new Capt
Yr 5: $118.41 (9/1/02)
Yr 6: 123.50 (9/1/03)
Yr 7: 131.16 (9/1/04)

Holding a Capt line at 5 years would depend on which domicile you are in, but you can probably upgrade to Capt qual at about 5 years (and fly some Capt trips by commuting or picking up).

Stock options are given to you, but they are options, not actual stock. In other words, they are giving you "control" of a block of stocks. When you exercise the option, you are "buying" and "selling" it simultaneously, and (presumably) taking the profits. If you're granted 1000 options at a $15.00 strike price, and the stock goes up to $16.00 and you exercise the options, you get $1000.

There is a stock purchase plan as well. You can buy them monthly (if I'm remembering orientation day correctly), and I think the discount is 10%.

As for flying schedule, the guarantee is 85/87/89 trips, depending on how many days (28/30/31) are in the month. There is no "typical" schedule, as you can find anywhere from 12 days to probably 17 days of flying. A common schedule would be either a 3-on, 3-off, a 3-on, 4-off, or a 4-on, 3-off "pattern" until you have flown 13-16 days. If you get the 4-on, 3-off pattern, you probably also have a block of 5-9 days off in a row somewhere. There are no lines planned with less than 16 days off (31-day month), but you can "give away" trips (if someone will take them) or "pick up" extra trips (if you can outbid the other guys for them).
Schedule length is not necessarily directly related to pay, either.

My "hard line" first month I flew 120 trips, on a relatively "easy" 3-on, 4-off pattern, (gave away a 2-day and worked 15 total) and the "worst" day of any trip was a 5-leg day going up and down Calif. If you get any "long-haul" stuff like MDW-OAK or PVD-PHX you can get more "trips per day" than you can doing the Texas Two Step. But your own schedule is pretty highly "customizable" as long as there are guys out there looking to pick up extra stuff (which varies by domicile).
 

tredding@swa

SWA F/O
Joined
Jul 1, 2002
Posts
294
Total Time
10500+
WOW!

Lots of great info here guys, thanks! Many of my questions/mysteries are now clear.

I just found this board yesterday & signed on today, wrinkled & pruned like the rest of you "poolies".

As it goes... misery loves company? Of course the "misery" is a great place to be - finally - and I too am "enjoying" my status as an expert swimmer, I am considering an Olympic tryout this summer after all of this pool time, anyone know where the trials are held??

Thanks again to all who are here, hope to meet some of you soon in DAL. Have a great day! KB
 

TriStar_drvr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
427
Total Time
12000+
Thanks XHerc. Those numbers are more in line with what our MEC published. My guess is that they tried to convert a per trip rate to a per hour rate. The monthly trip guarantee you stated was exactly what they published.

One more question. How does the trip method for determining pay work? Is each leg assigned a trip value based on scehduled block time? What happens if the leg exceeds block? How about if it is less? Do the trip times get adjusted regularly? Such as if they notice the ONT-LAS leg is consistently five minutes over the :55 scheduled block, is it adjusted upward?

Stock options I understand. However I've never had anyone explain the trip method used by SWA.

To anyone who responds, thanks in advance.

Brad
 

xhercdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
80
Total Time
5300
Hehe I'm not sure I can explain the trip method either :D But from The Holy Contract of Antioch...

A "trip" = 243 miles. Any flight between two airports 243 miles (or less) apart is a "trip." Every 40 additional miles between the two airports is 1/10 trip. (Apparently the previous union reps couldn't divide 243 by 10) ;) There is also a time calculation involved, where a standard trip = 55 minutes. Every 5 minutes over that = 1/10 trip, so if you're in a holding pattern, or vectored to East Jesus, or told to maintain 170 kts 100 miles out, the pay will be based on the greater of the "time trip" or the "distance trip." Except the first 7 minutes doesn't count, so it isn't "over" for time until you're 12 minutes late, so 12 minutes is 1/10 trip, and 17 minutes is 2/10, etc.

Confused yet? I know I am :D

There is some debate ongoing over just how the "comparable hourly rate" is being determined, so I won't hazard a guess as to how it really is, other than to say that the union, the company, and other companies pretty much all use whichever "conversion" appears to be most advantageous to their negotiating position, as we'd expect, I guess ;) But, for a rough estimate, if 55 minutes = 1 trip, then 60 min = 1.09 trips, so add about 10% to the above trip rates for an "hourly rate."
 

TriStar_drvr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
427
Total Time
12000+
Thanks XHerc. I have to admit I was shaking my head halfway through your post explaining the trip system. Leave it to airline management to make something that should be simple into something so complicated.

I gave up trying to understand the trip system. I figure that most airline pilots are like me, and try to work as little as possible. So, I just take the monthly guarantee whether it's in trips or hours, and multiply it by the corresponding rate, to see what the laziest pilot for either airline would earn in a month. I'll let the overachievers who like to work overtime worry about how many minutes or miles extra they have to fly to earn an extra buck. :)

Thanks again,

Brad
 

shagadelic

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2002
Posts
309
Total Time
10k+
Sorry folks, I've been on the road, but most of the questions looked answered...

I included the contract proposal because I fully expect it to pass, I've heard polling numbers place it around 65/35 FOR. (though I will not be voting for it; that would be another thread...)

The trip rates make it seem we get paid less than we really do. If you are comparing hours to trips you are really messing up. Last month I flew 77.35 hours. But I was paid for 102.7 trips. I make 55.51 per trip right now. That's the same as 73.70/hour for last month. It will vary from month to month. In May, I flew 94 trips and blocked 79.3 which equated to about 65 an hour. So when comparing keep that in mind. A good gouge is add 14% to the trip rate.

By the end of this contract in 06 (should it pass), a 12 year captain will make the equivalent of $200 per hour.

Profit sharing is up to the company and I don't know of any contractual guidelines to that.
 

shagadelic

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2002
Posts
309
Total Time
10k+
Flychicaga,
The overnights vary, and I don't know the official stats, if there are any. However, from my experience, the low end is around 12 hours, the high end is around 20 hours. Most are around 14-16 hours.
 

Gumbydammit

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Posts
95
Total Time
3000+
How are your hotels on overnights? Are we talking Holiday Inn, Radisson, etc? For example, where do you guys stay in San Antonio? or San Diego? Just looking for an idea of what kind of places you get...thanks!
 

shagadelic

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2002
Posts
309
Total Time
10k+
We stay at the Hilton in San Antonio, and Sheraton in San Diego. It depends on the city obviously, but it is pilots and flight attendants who are on the committees that chose the hotels, so the discounts and amenities are generally very good.
 
Top