canyonblue
Everyone loves Southwest
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FreightNazi
not an ACMI
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2004
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- 460
wrong focus!
Hey canyon blue.....lets start from the begining.....Hi, im a fellow 737 driver and i friend.......(holding my hand out to ya).....now that we got that out of the way, allow me back up a little. Yes, I did feel that way about those guys back in 2000 and actually thot it silly that everyone try and out the other by getting more and more and more pay! I am a pilot and not management, so i know what being on the line is like. i just dont see setting stratospheric pay levels just to outdo the other mec's or whatever....because since this industry is cyclic, you cannot maintain salary levels forever and will have to take hits in the future as conditions, the economy, and financials change. now management deserves to take major blame for not doing their part and their salary structure should reflect their job performance! these golden parachutes are total horse crap! Why they dont pass of fuel rises and costs on to the customers is ludicrous and is a major reason why their balance sheets look like manure! most of that can be attributed to SWA, JB, Airtran tho, since it is you guys keeping the fares low and basically bleeding the majors to death. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM so relax....it is just an objective analysis of the macro situation going on. unfortunately as costs are now hitting the low fare sector as well and with your hedges running out, guess what?...price hikes (and multiple ones at that) that didnt stick before sure as hell are now! and they need to keep sticking. perhaps this combined with continued optimum aircraft and crew utilization, good load factors, etc...will allow for profitable operations that will allow salaries and pensions to remain untouched. i think swa is a great company with great people! I just think that in the future an acceptable compromise would to to somehow work out a total compensation plan that is more closely aligned with the balance sheets so that you dont go through 5-6 years with awesome pay(and thus get accustomed to that QOL), then take it in the chin when you hit the industry trough and then suffer......now in the absence of any plan like that....i am all for getting top dollar and i say keep it coming!!!!! but in the back of my mind i will work out my family's budget on a percentage of it and bank alot of it away in addition to having 3-6months of salary worth in an emergency fund that is not part of any ira, 401k etc......planning ahead man,...that was just my simple advice dude.......
i have nothing against any LCC or any legacy....the guys in 2000 should have kept 1990 and 91 in mind with pan am and eastern.....and those guys should have kept in mind the 70's fuel crisis and so on.......do you see a cycle going on here bluey? i dont care who you are or where you fly or whatever....again....simple economics combined with industry fluctuations that follows global economy's.....the same can be said for the auto industry and the cruise lines, etc.....but at least they pass on the cost of higher commodities on the consumer unlike our "men of genuis" in the boardrooms across the nation. Like gordon bethune said,...this is industry is run by idiots and morons!!! i couldnt agree more! now you have exceptions like bethune (who saved CAL), kelleher(who revolutionized the global industry) and neeleman(who bucked the trend and gave everyone a run for their money)
so does it seem like i have a bone against SWA, i dont really think so, just with that stupid piece of garbage that gave you all a black eye showing up for work in SLC blowing alcohol when, and im sure that the thousands that would only dream of having his job with a company as stand up as SWA would love to kick the ******************** out of him(yes, i know it was below .04, but if i have to argue with you on the merits of not blowing ANYTHING, then we have bigger problems to address, like your spot in the psych ward).
so like i said......be wise and mindful about history so that when the tide hits you....you wont be caught without being protected is all i was saying.......
canyonblue said:
Hey canyon blue.....lets start from the begining.....Hi, im a fellow 737 driver and i friend.......(holding my hand out to ya).....now that we got that out of the way, allow me back up a little. Yes, I did feel that way about those guys back in 2000 and actually thot it silly that everyone try and out the other by getting more and more and more pay! I am a pilot and not management, so i know what being on the line is like. i just dont see setting stratospheric pay levels just to outdo the other mec's or whatever....because since this industry is cyclic, you cannot maintain salary levels forever and will have to take hits in the future as conditions, the economy, and financials change. now management deserves to take major blame for not doing their part and their salary structure should reflect their job performance! these golden parachutes are total horse crap! Why they dont pass of fuel rises and costs on to the customers is ludicrous and is a major reason why their balance sheets look like manure! most of that can be attributed to SWA, JB, Airtran tho, since it is you guys keeping the fares low and basically bleeding the majors to death. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM so relax....it is just an objective analysis of the macro situation going on. unfortunately as costs are now hitting the low fare sector as well and with your hedges running out, guess what?...price hikes (and multiple ones at that) that didnt stick before sure as hell are now! and they need to keep sticking. perhaps this combined with continued optimum aircraft and crew utilization, good load factors, etc...will allow for profitable operations that will allow salaries and pensions to remain untouched. i think swa is a great company with great people! I just think that in the future an acceptable compromise would to to somehow work out a total compensation plan that is more closely aligned with the balance sheets so that you dont go through 5-6 years with awesome pay(and thus get accustomed to that QOL), then take it in the chin when you hit the industry trough and then suffer......now in the absence of any plan like that....i am all for getting top dollar and i say keep it coming!!!!! but in the back of my mind i will work out my family's budget on a percentage of it and bank alot of it away in addition to having 3-6months of salary worth in an emergency fund that is not part of any ira, 401k etc......planning ahead man,...that was just my simple advice dude.......
i have nothing against any LCC or any legacy....the guys in 2000 should have kept 1990 and 91 in mind with pan am and eastern.....and those guys should have kept in mind the 70's fuel crisis and so on.......do you see a cycle going on here bluey? i dont care who you are or where you fly or whatever....again....simple economics combined with industry fluctuations that follows global economy's.....the same can be said for the auto industry and the cruise lines, etc.....but at least they pass on the cost of higher commodities on the consumer unlike our "men of genuis" in the boardrooms across the nation. Like gordon bethune said,...this is industry is run by idiots and morons!!! i couldnt agree more! now you have exceptions like bethune (who saved CAL), kelleher(who revolutionized the global industry) and neeleman(who bucked the trend and gave everyone a run for their money)
so does it seem like i have a bone against SWA, i dont really think so, just with that stupid piece of garbage that gave you all a black eye showing up for work in SLC blowing alcohol when, and im sure that the thousands that would only dream of having his job with a company as stand up as SWA would love to kick the ******************** out of him(yes, i know it was below .04, but if i have to argue with you on the merits of not blowing ANYTHING, then we have bigger problems to address, like your spot in the psych ward).
so like i said......be wise and mindful about history so that when the tide hits you....you wont be caught without being protected is all i was saying.......
J3CubCapt
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 144
Quote from B737Dvr
I am just saying what is already public knowledge that SWA will have been in the red without their fuel hedges.
I'm SOOOOOO tired of hearing this one. ITS CALLED A BUISINESS PLAN, WHY DON'T YOU GET ONE!
Quote from B737Dvr
Perhaps this was unsolicited advice, but was also an indirect reminder of what the future balance sheets will cause Wn's mngmnt to look at....labor real high pay!
Well the difference is that we WORK for what we get paid!
I am just saying what is already public knowledge that SWA will have been in the red without their fuel hedges.
I'm SOOOOOO tired of hearing this one. ITS CALLED A BUISINESS PLAN, WHY DON'T YOU GET ONE!
Quote from B737Dvr
Perhaps this was unsolicited advice, but was also an indirect reminder of what the future balance sheets will cause Wn's mngmnt to look at....labor real high pay!
Well the difference is that we WORK for what we get paid!
Last edited:
Now, just in cause you think I still have it in for SWA and hope that you guys fail, and so that i can.....lol.....get out of that "jackass room".....lol....
please fill me in bluey on SWA's plan on how to cope with their coming fuel crisis...(if you dont call going from 30ish a barrel to 70ish a barrel a crisis, then we need to work on that first).
the reason the industry's price increases have been successful is because they were initiated by the LCC sector and the majors will not waste a second to back them up. Beyond raising your prices....what else can WN do? Dont you guys already kick ass with turnaround times? How is the exploratory seating assigning going? Where else can they look at to increase productivity, and cut down on waste and cost?.....these are questions i'd want answered now....and not after WN reports their losses and time is critical.........if you guys figure this out....and keep your pay and benny's from being touched then youll be the first ever, and I am all ears!!!!!
btw, i hope you are not in the camp that believes that oil prices will return to 50 a barrel much less 30....because that is what caused usairways immediate return to ch11 their idiotic mangmnt and i think that is what UAL has based their biz plan on 50 a barrel....yikes!!!!!!
any thoughts?
please fill me in bluey on SWA's plan on how to cope with their coming fuel crisis...(if you dont call going from 30ish a barrel to 70ish a barrel a crisis, then we need to work on that first).
the reason the industry's price increases have been successful is because they were initiated by the LCC sector and the majors will not waste a second to back them up. Beyond raising your prices....what else can WN do? Dont you guys already kick ass with turnaround times? How is the exploratory seating assigning going? Where else can they look at to increase productivity, and cut down on waste and cost?.....these are questions i'd want answered now....and not after WN reports their losses and time is critical.........if you guys figure this out....and keep your pay and benny's from being touched then youll be the first ever, and I am all ears!!!!!
btw, i hope you are not in the camp that believes that oil prices will return to 50 a barrel much less 30....because that is what caused usairways immediate return to ch11 their idiotic mangmnt and i think that is what UAL has based their biz plan on 50 a barrel....yikes!!!!!!
any thoughts?
cubby.......
Yes, I am well aware that you guys bust your ass to make it happen, and you are probably taking issue with the B777 guys that in your opinion dont work as hard as you.........but to do that is akin to taking pot shots at you guys for being with a great company and for being profitable!
Damn, you guys must be getting the ******************** kicked out of you everywhere you go, cause you are awfully defensive! sheot! i made a lil comment and then i get the idiot's treatment...sheesh....
J3CubCapt said:
Yes, I am well aware that you guys bust your ass to make it happen, and you are probably taking issue with the B777 guys that in your opinion dont work as hard as you.........but to do that is akin to taking pot shots at you guys for being with a great company and for being profitable!
Damn, you guys must be getting the ******************** kicked out of you everywhere you go, cause you are awfully defensive! sheot! i made a lil comment and then i get the idiot's treatment...sheesh....
Whataburger
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2005
- Posts
- 2,961
B737Dvr said:
737 USair? Sounds like it.
If you cared enough about our situation to devote "real" time toward our company, you would have listened to the 2hr conference this morning. You would have seen how competent our company is, that they do have a plan, and are willing to do what it takes to be sucessful. Everyone has been waiting for us to fall on our face since 1971. Still going strong. Is the future uncertain? Yes. Is the price of doing business going to go up? Yes. Do we have an outstanding mgmt team that will put in 150% of their efforts to make sure SWA and it's 30,000 employees are around for 35 more years? You bet! Do we pilots know the plan? I don't. Didn't get my business degree. I fully trust my mgmt to do their jobs just like they completely trust me to do my job. Grab some popcorn and watch the show. We will continue to teach the industry how things SHOULD be done.
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Airtran717
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2006
- Posts
- 56
nope!
Wrong burger man....i dont work for usairways, but nice try to reference me back to the sour grapes bandwagon! Dont confuse you and I and anyone else on here for any (REAL TIME) its just a website....what i, you and anyone else on here put down is superfluous to everything else....
i am very active in the financial markets, so I have been keeping an eye at LUV for quite some time now, and yes I have actually read the transcripts from the conference call. Again, I say very impressive! I have never said anything about how you guys will fall on your face.....i hope it doesnt happen! I have jumpseated a bit on WN and you guys have been nothing but great...a testament to your company......all i simply say is that I am curious as to how WN will maintain these #'s with the upcoming fuel expenses. Gary even alluded to the fact that in order for this to happen they had to initiate "modest fare increases"......this could be the catalyst that may propel LUV into new territory as far as stock price is concerned,,,,because their stock has done nothing but go lateral if not sink a bit since 2000 after their last split. the good thing about fare increases is that it is also what the majors need and they need it bad! trusting your management to do their job is great as long as you keep your eyes open and with the same mindset that your CFO's office had when they looked ahead to hedge.....i think it is just prudent for us all to heed that example.......i hope SWA will be around for another 50 years or so.......but resting on your laurels (which is what you guys dont seem to be doing) has shown that even airlines like Pan Am, Eastern, TWA...(global names that ruled the skies for 70 years) can sucumb. I hope WN is able to show the industry how to deal with this landscape so that others (management) can see how its done!
Whataburger said:
Wrong burger man....i dont work for usairways, but nice try to reference me back to the sour grapes bandwagon! Dont confuse you and I and anyone else on here for any (REAL TIME) its just a website....what i, you and anyone else on here put down is superfluous to everything else....
i am very active in the financial markets, so I have been keeping an eye at LUV for quite some time now, and yes I have actually read the transcripts from the conference call. Again, I say very impressive! I have never said anything about how you guys will fall on your face.....i hope it doesnt happen! I have jumpseated a bit on WN and you guys have been nothing but great...a testament to your company......all i simply say is that I am curious as to how WN will maintain these #'s with the upcoming fuel expenses. Gary even alluded to the fact that in order for this to happen they had to initiate "modest fare increases"......this could be the catalyst that may propel LUV into new territory as far as stock price is concerned,,,,because their stock has done nothing but go lateral if not sink a bit since 2000 after their last split. the good thing about fare increases is that it is also what the majors need and they need it bad! trusting your management to do their job is great as long as you keep your eyes open and with the same mindset that your CFO's office had when they looked ahead to hedge.....i think it is just prudent for us all to heed that example.......i hope SWA will be around for another 50 years or so.......but resting on your laurels (which is what you guys dont seem to be doing) has shown that even airlines like Pan Am, Eastern, TWA...(global names that ruled the skies for 70 years) can sucumb. I hope WN is able to show the industry how to deal with this landscape so that others (management) can see how its done!
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