Southwest Pilots Aggressively Push Age 65

[SWA/FO]

Why does your pilot group insist on flying to age 65? Instead of subjecting the rest of us to your whims, why not insist and negotiate a real retirement from Southwest. We keep hearing how great the company is doing, yet you have no real retirement. To tell you the truth, it’s sad.

I guess, we as a group think its unfair that when you are forced to retire at age 60 you don't get SS bennies, and if our company had dumped our pension you get penalized for stop working at age 60 by the PGC. It was voted on by our pilot group and the majority wanted to go forward with the fight. We are a growth airline...most upgrade are because of new aircraft, we might view age 65 differently then a full size carrier. Southwest is not the only airline involved in this effort.

Pension? We do quite well with our 401k, profit sharing and stock options. Some improvements in this area? Maybe? We are negoiating a new contract starting on 8/1/06. Our current contract is at least 12 years old. We don't really get to excited about comparing ourselves to others. I think AA, CAL, Fed Ex & UPS have the safe pensions. I like the control we have with our own money. I think traditional pensions are gone with the wind.

We wont kill the golden goose..

 

[Bake]

A plan is something you do not the company you work for. My money is guaranteed. If SWA went out of business tomorrow that is my money. SWA does not control it. What is your plan?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I'm sorry, why isn't a 401 and profit sharing a retirement plan? I fail to understand how GUARANTEED MONEY is not in my future. How is a Defined Benefit guaranteed retirement plan for you. Hence the word PLAN.

Wouldn't the traditional "A" plan be more of the classic defined benefit plan? Profit sharing is never guaranteed. But then a B plan probably isn't either.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

A plan is something you do not the company you work for. My money is guaranteed. If SWA went out of business tomorrow that is my money. SWA does not control it. What is your plan?

Same as yours, just less. Think calm, Bake. All is well.

 

[iflyhigh]

Bake:

You are crazy saying a pilot should only retire when he can't pass a medical anymore.

I flew with a 75 year old and a 70 year old. I can tell the were good. But the age 75 guy should really start thinking about retirement. He is slowing in his response times, (crap he almost hit a tree on final), he can't hear and he will not retire. Wants to die in an airplane. Crap I just don't want him to kill the copilot and passengers. (By the way this is corporate / 135.)

What you don't get is that some pilots don't know when to call it quits. By changing the age to 65, once again the government is just randomly selecting an age. It just happens to be Social Security age, or close to it. (Depends on how old you are.)

So I guess when the 20 somethings reach 45 and they are looking at retirement in the next 20 years, they will be looking to move the age to 70 years old, since they probably will not be able to collect Social Security till 70 or 72 possible.

I am not advocating keeping age 60 or increasing. We all know everyone ages differently. But we also know that there are FAA medical doctors out their that will sign just about any pilot off. This is a problem.

iflyhigh

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I guess, we as a group think its unfair that when you are forced to retire at age 60 you don't get SS bennies, and if our company had dumped our pension you get penalized for stop working at age 60 by the PGC. It was voted on by our pilot group and the majority wanted to go forward with the fight. We are a growth airline...most upgrade are because of new aircraft, we might view age 65 differently then a full size carrier. Southwest is not the only airline involved in this effort.

Pension? We do quite well with our 401k, profit sharing and stock options. Some improvements in this area? Maybe? We are negoiating a new contract starting on 8/1/06. Our current contract is at least 12 years old. We don't really get to excited about comparing ourselves to others. I think AA, CAL, Fed Ex & UPS have the safe pensions. I like the control we have with our own money. I think traditional pensions are gone with the wind.

We wont kill the golden goose..

What stock options do pilots get?

Oh yeah, almost forgot: If it wasn't for Southwest, we would've never found Antartica.

 

[SWA/FO]

Your match is no more secure than ours. And profit sharing can (I said can...) be unreliable. Now I fully expect SWA F/O to weigh in on this. SO while we all wait with bated breath in anticipation of complete arrogance and bravado, here's my take on what he will post:

Lets all type in jet blue color!!! Yeah!! Bavarain Chief!!

Why you hanging out on a Southwest Airlines thread? No excitment at your job? You feeling blue? :crying: You know you're allowed to reapply after 1 year. Thousands of options - you don't know? Some of the senior guys have 35,000 shares @ something like 3 bucks a share.

35,000 X 17.50 = $612500 - 105000 (cost of options) = $507500 not bad cash for 10 years worth of work.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Are you serious? You would actually advocate SWA adopting a defined benefit plan at this point? Read the papers... that dinosaur is DEAD. SWA's business model includes more than one "retirement plan" for the employees, do some research. Don't wish Delta's fate on the SWA pilot group.

Fly-diver,

You tell me. You are the guys advocating flying to 65 because of an inadequate retirement. Pretty sad, considering how well your company is doing. It could be an A plan, B plan, whatever. For your information, a B plan is a defined-contribution plan i.e. it's all yours in a bankruptcy.

Ultimately, there should be three legs to any good pension plan: defined-benefit (A plan), defined-contribution (B plan), and a 401K. You are right about A plans, they are dying for the common worker yet they are still used at the management level. UPS also has an A plan. Each of the legs has their own benefits and risks.

It seems like it's the Southwest pilots that need to do the research. A 401K plan, when developed in the 70's, was never meant to be a stand alone plan. You are seeing the results of that now, when your pilots must fly to 65 to make up for their lack of retirement. 401K’s were designed to work in conjunction with an A plan or B plan. Take it from me; you can not count on profit sharing every quarter or hoping the stock keeps rising in perpetuity.

Again, it the Southwest pilots that must figure out a retirement package that works for them and the company and not hose the rest of us with this stupid fly to you die rule.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Soulfly]

All of us young guys will need to find a Santa Claus AME, so when we reach our 50's we can still obtain a first class.
There is no doubt the criteria for a medical will change. Probably something people haven't really thought about.
The age 65 guys might actually be pushing for a much earlier forced retirement. Though they aren't aware of it.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Lets all type in jet blue color!!! Yeah!! Bavarain Chief!!

Why you hanging out on a Southwest Airlines thread? No excitment at your job? You feeling blue? :crying: You know you're allowed to reapply after 1 year.

Makes it easier to see my words when I do a post. Lowecur is mad at me for stealing his gig. It's no different than choosing a blue pen, vice black.

This issue of working to age 65 affects all pilots.

Never applied to SWA (but I love how you often use this one when your hamster starts slowing down). Many friends there though. All military -- sorry. Willing to bet I could get the help if I asked, just ain't asking.