Southwest Nose Gear Collapse LGA

[Juniority]

News reporting that they landed nose first.

So what would the PNF be doing as the PF landed nose first?

Fatigue?

Have you ever flown with "that Captain," the one who doesn't trust you to fly the aircraft? The one who is all over the controls when you're the PF? To the point that you can't tell if anything you're feeling as you fly was 1. your own input, 2. a gust or bit of wake turbulence or 3. an input from the PNF who's "ghosting you" on the controls?

Probably most of us here have flown with this type of Captain, and if you're like me you hated every single minute of the trip and for some reason this sort of treatment makes you fly badly (just the opposite of the great Captain who treats you like he trusts you).

Have you ever flown with the extreme version of "that Captain" who will cut your flare short by pushing the yoke forward as if you had to be prevented from running the aircraft off the end of the runway?

Well, the word on the street in my neighborhood says...

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Is LGA a captain only airport? What other airports are?

 

[waveflyer]

No- LGA is not-

Juniority- yeah- it becomes a self fulfilled prophecy pretty quick- and it's usually those that can't fly well themselves but are so ego centric that they think everyone struggles like they do, hence their need to help and lack of trust-

Those types need to go IMO-

Not everybody can do this job and that's ok-

If somebody does something bat sh/t crazy Id like to think we'd be quick enough to correct it or go around- but by grace go I...

 

[redflyer65]

Have you ever flown with "that Captain," the one who doesn't trust you to fly the aircraft? The one who is all over the controls when you're the PF? To the point that you can't tell if anything you're feeling as you fly was 1. your own input, 2. a gust or bit of wake turbulence or 3. an input from the PNF who's "ghosting you" on the controls?

Probably most of us here have flown with this type of Captain, and if you're like me you hated every single minute of the trip and for some reason this sort of treatment makes you fly badly (just the opposite of the great Captain who treats you like he trusts you).

Have you ever flown with the extreme version of "that Captain" who will cut your flare short by pushing the yoke forward as if you had to be prevented from running the aircraft off the end of the runway?

Well, the word on the street in my neighborhood says...

Yes I have. I'd honestly just like to know ahead of time so I can work the radios all day. I don't like not knowing who's in control. If its the other guy all day long, at least you know where you stand.

 

[Juniority]

If somebody does something bat sh/t crazy Id like to think we'd be quick enough to correct it or go around- but by grace go I...

But we don't do anything about them, unless you count putting them on your Avoidance Bid. I'm guilty of that behavior, only went to Pro-Standards and the Chiefs one time in all my FO years.

... all of which appears to be relevant to this discussion.

 

[Skybus]

Yep Junior, same whisper on my street corner as well.

 

[ATLplt]

Have you ever flown with "that Captain," the one who doesn't trust you to fly the aircraft? The one who is all over the controls when you're the PF? To the point that you can't tell if anything you're feeling as you fly was 1. your own input, 2. a gust or bit of wake turbulence or 3. an input from the PNF who's "ghosting you" on the controls?

I have a way to combat that. It's called "You have the aircraft".

I get paid the same to fly or talk on the radios. You feel the need to "save us" Captain Dillhole, you go right ahead.

 

[HowardBorden]

I had really hoped the safety culture at SW had changed. Thank goodness there were only minor injuries.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying i think there could be a culture there that incourages fuel savings and on time over safety. I hope i'm wrong.

Guys talk is cheap. It's fact that SWA has wrecked a lot of jets in the last ten years. Somebody better take a closer look.

You arrogant SOB, you ran into a gas station in Cali and killed an innocent bystander in MY city, Chicago. You bitches have just been lucky.

So they say it could happen to anyone, but why so many for Southwest?
Things that make you go hrmmm...

Accidents happen, but when you always taxi faster than everybody else, and you always fly the approach faster than everybody else, you have to accept responsibility for accidents, when they happen.

Lets actually add some data to these wild speculations. These numbers are crunched by: http://www.airline-safety-records.com/

Here is their methodology: Data for all statistics were obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration, the NTSB, and the U.S. Department of Transportation. Since some airlines fly much more often than others, a raw count of accidents, incidents, and near mid-air collisions would not give an accurate picture of how safe one airline is compared to another. Therefore all statistics are reported as a number per 1,000,000 takeoffs. For example, if an airline flew 5,000,000 takeoffs during the year and had 10 accidents it would be reported as having 2 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs. Again, if another airline flew only 500,000 takeoffs during the same year and had the same number of accidents (10 accidents) they would be reported as having 20 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs. Clearly the second airline is less safe than the first (even though they both had the same number of accidents during the year).
The limitation on the timeliness of the data provided in the tables is due to the fact that it may take several months for an aviation event to be recorded in the government's databases. Reliable data will therefore be several months old.

Here is the data:
5 Year Average
1/1/06 to 1/1/11
Accidents Per
1,000,000 T/O's

Expressjet Airlines 0
Frontier Airlines 0
Sun Country 0
Air Wisconsin 1
Alaska Airlines 1
Atlantic Southeast 1
Comair 1
Horizon 1
JetBlue Airways 1
AirTran Airways 2
Piedmont 2
Pinnacle Airlines 2
Skywest Airlines 2
Southwest Airlines 2
American Eagle Airlines 3
Continental Airlines 3
Hawaiian Airlines 3
Mesaba Airlines 3
PSA 3
American Airlines 4
Mesa Airlines 4
Trans States Airlines 5
US Airways 5
Delta 7
United 7

 

[Juniority]

Wait, the second death attributed to Southwest... would that be the drug-addled young man who attacked the cockpit door during a flight not long after 9/11 and got beaten to death by our passengers and got carrier off the aircraft feet-first in SLC?

I was wondering if his death fell within your timeframe, can't remember what year that happened.

 

[Jim]

Lets actually add some data to these wild speculations. These numbers are crunched by: http://www.airline-safety-records.com/

Here is their methodology: Data for all statistics were obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration, the NTSB, and the U.S. Department of Transportation. Since some airlines fly much more often than others, a raw count of accidents, incidents, and near mid-air collisions would not give an accurate picture of how safe one airline is compared to another. Therefore all statistics are reported as a number per 1,000,000 takeoffs. For example, if an airline flew 5,000,000 takeoffs during the year and had 10 accidents it would be reported as having 2 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs. Again, if another airline flew only 500,000 takeoffs during the same year and had the same number of accidents (10 accidents) they would be reported as having 20 accidents per 1,000,000 takeoffs. Clearly the second airline is less safe than the first (even though they both had the same number of accidents during the year).
The limitation on the timeliness of the data provided in the tables is due to the fact that it may take several months for an aviation event to be recorded in the government's databases. Reliable data will therefore be several months old.

Here is the data:
5 Year Average
1/1/06 to 1/1/11
Accidents Per
1,000,000 T/O's

Expressjet Airlines 0
Frontier Airlines 0
Sun Country 0
Air Wisconsin 1
Alaska Airlines 1
Atlantic Southeast 1
Comair 1
Horizon 1
JetBlue Airways 1
AirTran Airways 2
Piedmont 2
Pinnacle Airlines 2
Skywest Airlines 2
Southwest Airlines 2
American Eagle Airlines 3
Continental Airlines 3
Hawaiian Airlines 3
Mesaba Airlines 3
PSA 3
American Airlines 4
Mesa Airlines 4
Trans States Airlines 5
US Airways 5
Delta 7
United 7

What are they defining as an accident? According to that site, Hawaiian had 15 acidents in 2010 and averages 3 per year. Pure bull********************. The last accident we've had was in 2000. We've never had a fatality or a hull loss.