Southwest nightmare update

[mvi]

First, I just wanted to thank all you for your support and help. I even had Southwest guys calling me to see what they can find out. Cool guys I would like to fly with someday.

What I found out was that I was black-balled. THis is unbelievable. I do not have any enemies, I don't think. I get along with every person I fly with and haven't done anything to anyone that would cause someone to ruin my life and cost me $7500. I hope I can fix this but I don't know anything about this black ball thing. I have about 10 friends at Southwest and know for a fact that they would no do this to me.

If anyone is reading this that did black ball me please give me a private email and we can talk about why? Thanks everyone.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Good luck.

 

[OakRBust]

The whole situation really sucks and I really hope that things work out for you.

 

[B1900DFO]

Hope you get it straightened out, sounds like a real pain in the a##. Do you think a line pilot would have the power to black-ball someone from the industry or do you think it was a HR/MGT type? Possibly they have the wrong guy, i've heard of people sharing names with previous scabs and going through quite a bit of grief trying to ride jumpseats, etc. Best of luck!

 

[RichardFitzwell]

mvi,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. This exact same thing happened to a captain I flew with in '95. He listed his F/O's from the commuter we were at as his references. He checked with each of them before listing them and he assumed they all liked him and wanted him to get the job.

Same as you, he got rejected and couldn't figure out why. Several weeks later he found out, through mutual friends, one of his references told SW this guy was not the type of person SW should hire. This reference called him 'unstable' and an 'improper fit' with Southwest. My friend was crushed.

Come to find out the person that blackballed him only flew with him once and really didn't 'know' him. He based his slandering on things he heard. Total B.S.

I hope things work out for you. BTW - This guy never did get on flying for Southwest even though he was a great guy.

 

[Caveman]

If SWA made a hiring decison based on an undocumented and unsubstantiated negative comment from one person then it is the company that has the problem, not you. If they reneged based on your background check then it should be an easy matter for them to show you what they found and give you the chance to explain. Either way their handling of this matter appears to be at best unprofessional and certainly unkind. So much for putting people first. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

 

[ATA75Pilot]

That is the way SWA does business. They rely heavily on the opinions of their own people.

When I was interviewed I was told about the list of prospective candiates that was hung up somewhere in the SWA complex. Anyone was free to comment. Although, I was told that a negative review from a current pilot would have to be substantiated...not just hearsay.

My favorite story told to us when I interviewed was about the former Air Force One pilot that was coming to the interview. Seems he was a bit rude to the gate agent while coming to Dallas. One phone call and his interview was cancelled.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Yeah, Right

That "Urban Legend" has been circulating for years - I can't believe a gate agent has that much influence over any pilot's job interview - yet alone an Air Force One pilot.....

I have met a couple Air Force One pilots over the years (and 89th Andrews AFB guys=C-21, C-9 and B757) and with respect to their flying skills and personalities they are no doubt the best - period. Just my observation

Seniority IS everything

 

[enigma]

Not trying to be a hard arse here, but dude don't beg. Whoever blackballed you most likely will not call you up and say that he/she is sorry.
Next, my SWA story is essentially the same as yours. I was shot down, (note to the naysayers. Even though it took three years to confirm, I do have enough friends on the inside to confirm this to at least 99% ) by an unsolicited call from a previous employer. He made the call in an attempt to get them to tell him if was going to get hired because he thought that I was stringing him along, but apparenly decided to make a few comments at the same time. He admits to the call, BTW. Bottom line, SWA took an unsolicited call from someone who's identity they couldn't verify, and took me off of the hire list even after I had already taken the preemployment drug test. In all fairness, I did not receive a written offer, but my buds tell me that at that time, you didn't get the drug screen call until after the decision committee met.
One more statement in fairness. I tried again two years later and didn't even get through the interview. The second failure probably came from overconfidence because I thought that since I had passed the interview earlier that it would be a breeze the second time.
Oh well, the current job is pretty dang good and easier to boot. Just not as much money.
8N

 

[SWA GUY]

Here's an idea:

I beat the pulp outta the Xxpress guy, then someone can take over and beat on the pulp for a while.

HC

 

[RightBettor]

Wait a minute...

SWA GUY:

I think you're missing something here... with all due respect. "xXpress1" was commenting on something written by an individual who had his post removed by a moderator. The thread doesn't look right because people are referring to "Mr.Aviation," yet that person's message isn't there. If you read some other posts by "Mr.Aviation," then you'll soon realize this person likes to spew venom.

I don't think "xXpress1" was telling the original poster that he didn't "matter."

Of course that's just my opinion... I could be wrong.


RightBettor

"Hands high! Dice are out!"

 

[SWA GUY]

OOOOOooooppps!

Sorry guys if I got the wrong person! My apologies.

HC

 

[bigD]

That "Urban Legend" has been circulating for years - I can't believe a gate agent has that much influence over any pilot's job interview - yet alone an Air Force One pilot.....

Perhaps it's an urban legend, but if so Herb Kelleher himself has been the guy spreading the lie. He spoke at my college a few months back, and of course the pilot geek that I am was sitting there in the first row. One of the things he mentioned was SWA's tactics regarding pilot interviews, and said that when an interviewee is flown in, the ramp agents are told to pay attention and report about his/her demeanor. If the interviewee was reported to be a jerk - he was shown the door.

Maybe this only happened while Herb was running things, I dunno. Maybe it never did, but I AM sure that Herb was standing there telling us that it was the case!

 

[shagadelic]

radiofly er,

You are exactly right and that's the reason for SWA taking valuable input from pilots. I have helped around 20 guys get on at SWA. I also had some negative things to say about 1 guy. When I gave the negative comments, the background checker began extensively checking up on what I had to say with other pilots as well as some people still on active duty. I don't believe they would ever take just the word of one person and deny employment. But couple that with a marginal interview, other background information, and other pilots' comments, then yes it may make a difference, IMHO.

If you knowingly let an a$$hole get on property, you may have just cost a good guy the position. Every base has a handful of guys that make you wonder how they slipped through. They are the ones always in the Chief Pilots office because the Captain or FO can't stand to fly with them. They are a CRM problem from the get go.

MVI sounds like a decenct guy and what happened does suck, especially that late in the process. I am sure there must be something else to explain this that we don't know.

But 99% of the guys I fly with are super people and alot of it is the way we do our hiring. I am glad we hire on personality, and not whether or not you can answer math riddles, or some stupid psych test, or how to describe an air molecule as it flows through a jet engine. How about doing a job and having fun while you do it. Great concept.

BTW, if you are one to blow up at the lowly gate agents, don't worry, I'm sure they have no say in the mighty pilot's future.

 

[OakRBust]

Shag..... Great Post!

 

[SWA/FO]

Folks,

Back in 1999, a former employer of mine, a small part 61 flight school with 3 C152s said made some false statements to US Airways. US Airways had total disregard for the Pilots Record Improvement Act of 1996 and I was never able to get it cleared up. (Yes, I hired a lawyer but was unable to prove damages)

I go to my FedEx interview and I try to explain this former employer of mine to them. I guess, it came accross wrong, maybe to much emotion etc... They did not like me.

I go to SWA and I'm told by my interview prep company that I should tell SWA about this previous employer (even though it would not be part of my background check > 5 years, by then) Well, I write this letter with just the facts no emotion. I laid it all on the table the good and the ugly. It worked.

I'm not sure why this has happened to you, but no employer likes to discover things. It just looks bad. They might have you mixed up with some other guy? When I called the people dept. to put the good word in for a buddy once, they had two guys in the data base with the same name. Don't give up

 

[shagadelic]

radio,
Understand your point, but in reality the way SWA does it is better. Not only do you not want to hire jerks, by the same token you do not want people you know are marginal. Which is more important: a one hour sim in something you've never flown or someone stepping up and saying "hey that guy has always been a weak flier and here's 5 guys who will tell you the same thing. He nearly got me killed in such and such..."

Remember when United had the sim? If you went early, paid the big money to the prep people, you could get coached well enough to do good on the Frasca. But what about the poor slob who didn't rely on that. What about the guy who just has a bad day? Simulators do not prove anything.

BTW, everyone, at every interview, at any company, is discriminated against for something. They use discriminators to weed people: hours, equipment, military, civilian, logbooks, flying history, attitude, appearance, references, lack of references, criminal record, the way you smell, lack of smiling, etc. If you want to work for a company, then you take care of those things you know are important for that company.

 

[qxeplt]

Ultimate Background Check...

I will relay to you about a SWA jumpseater I had on one of my flights last year just after I interviewed. I had a SWA pilot ride jumpseat with me on his way home, we got on the topic of interviewing with SWA since I was waiting for my DB. He told me about a guy who interviewed with SWA that was flying for my company at the time. They were a bit curious about this guy after the interview. I think any jerk can go in and play the interview game and even get a few people to write up recomendations. At anyrate, the jumpseater told me SWA knew he was a SWA commuter and he usualy went home on the company from which this guy they interviewed was employed. They asked him next time he commuted into work to ask some of the crews about this guy. Well, all he got was awful comments about the guy and needless to say he wasn't offered the job. I doubt this was all they went on, maybe other stuff surfaced and they wanted to do more checking. We all know SWA is very protective of their culture, as they should be. It goes without saying, be careful cause they have their ways of getting the inside scoop. I've heard of other little techniques too. I'm sure MVI is a great guy and I hope he gets this fixed soon but I just wanted to shed a little light on this subject since it's being discussed.

As far as SWA being PFT, I think that's nonsense. When you PFT that IS the training and you go online thereafter. At SWA you type on your own and when you go to class you get it all over again just as intense training as any other airline. When I went through my interview they told us at one time they were offered big insurance discounts when both pilots in the cockpit were typed. Today that's not the case but out of respect for the already 4200 pilots give or take, that had to type themselves and most that had to do it just to get an interview well then that's why they require it, among other reasons...

 

[shagadelic]

Radio,
First, let's not turn this into military vs. civilian. At this level, there is no siginificant difference between military and civilian. No, I am not afraid of a sim, any sim, and I don't think any civilian or military pilot would be at this level.

Let's take your two friends who got hired by faking their personality. Would you not want some degree of input into their hiring process? I think someone who knows these people failed in exposing their personality weaknesses and as a result, some SWA Captain will have to spend a three day with them and hate life because of it.

 

[trainerjet]

radiofly er,

Just curious. Did you request and were you able to find out where you failed or were not satisfactory at SWA, and was that that?

I think it's much more valuable to hire a person using the process that most companies..including SWA, use today, than the one which you describe. Gee, wouldn't want to worry that my shoe was untied while I was giving an answer to a legitimate question.
Maybe that video caught you picking your nose when no one was looking?? That'll weed 'em out for sure.