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Southwest looks to grow where rivals downsize

canyonblue

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But it's just as dumb to criticize swa for the type requirement. They clearly can command it, so what's it to anyone if it's there?

Exactly. If you want to work at Southwest, and enjoy the benefits of working for a financially stable carrier where you will enjoy coming to work, pay the entry fee. If that's not your style, Delto's hiring.
 

redflyer65

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Just make sure you have the degree for DELTO. It's kinda hard to run out and get a four year degree. Good luck!
 

HowardBorden

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By my logic? I said I got a degree before I decided I wanted to be a pilot... What!? Congrats you had the type before hand... YOU did not have to go out of your way to get a type rating... Others do... By YOUR logic EVERY pilot that becomes an airline pilot is PFT... I don't give two s__ts about how people got where they did... They got there and should be stoked! I remember now why I stopped posting... Some uptight people on here...
In the end it is all a ridiculous comparison.

The vast majority of all SWA pilots have a degree and I will submit in this day and age you will not be the most "desirable" candidate without a degree. So in essence SWA generally requires a degree and a type rating. Sure there have been those hired without a degree but I will guess that number is pretty small in the last decade.

To equate the type requirement to PFT falls short of the meaning PAY for training. SWA is not charging anyone money to issue them a type so if that money is in fact paid it surely is not to SWA. A common misconception is that it saves SWA money, also absolutely false. SWA is in no way rewarded credit toward Part 121 training requirements because of the applicant having a type rating. 121 training requirements are the exact same for every airline. Every airline has to check the same number of boxes for a new hire with a type rating on the aircraft they are training for regardless of whether or not they have a type rating in that aircraft. Direct proof is shown through AirTran pilots transitioning are given the same program as new hires with a type.

Thousands of SWA pilots came to the company with a type provided by a previous employer or the good old US government. How did they get hired without paying for a type? The reason it gets compared to a degree is usually because the same person that says well you had to resort for PFT to get a job works for an airline that requires a college degree in order to even get an interview. Without that sheepskin you need not apply. SWA will at least interview applicants without the type in order start the process. Many like myself interviewed without the type because SWA was one of the only airlines consistently hiring over the last 15 years. Don't get me wrong SWA was always high up my list as a preferred employer but when they are the only airline consistently hiring for a long stretch of time many looking to move on to bigger and better things sent in the application without a type rating. The choice was easy for me. I was offered a job at a strong company paying the highest narrow body wages, by far. On top of that the first year pay at minimum guarantee was more than $15,000 higher than the VAST majority of other airlines first year wages AND THEY WEREN'T HIRING. I did what most would do I took the job that was offered and paid for the type. In the end I'm many years in and many dollars on the positive side for my decision not to mention quite happy with my work environment.

Would I have received a job offer with no degree and no type, to be truthful I probably would have been less desirable and therefore less likely to get a job offer. Would I even been allowed to apply at some places without a degree, most definitely not. I am currently working on a Masters degree. Although I personally hope I will never be forced to look for another flying job, the Masters is for personal goals not work related at all. Many got a degree for personal satisfaction as well all the while knowing it would allow them professional advancement as well. Getting a degree is smart no matter who you are and where you want to work. I would never call that PFT. However, some will spend much less money for a 737 type rating without a degree and are able to be rewarded personally and financially for that decision. It is simply a sound career investment for many.
 

canyonblue

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Just make sure you have the degree for DELTO. It's kinda hard to run out and get a four year degree. Good luck!

There is always The University of Phoenix, for an extra $400 they will put you on the football team.
 

humveedriver

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I think the type rating requirement should go away. In 3 years years we will have the Max and folks will still be going to Higher Power to get their -200 type rating. Which is going to be useless. I can understand requiring a type if a company hires street captains or is a relatively young company with fast upgrade times. Neither case exists at SWA. Lots of companies start out hiring with greater restrictions and then relax them as the company matures. jetBlue required 121 PIC time in an aircraft that weighed 20,0000lbs or more when they first started hiring. That requirement is gone. SWA has a great training program and first class facilities. They have trained up APDs as a result of the AT acquisition. It's time to move on and drop the type.
 

SWA Bubba

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I think the type rating requirement should go away. In 3 years years we will have the Max and folks will still be going to Higher Power to get their -200 type rating. Which is going to be useless. I can understand requiring a type if a company hires street captains or is a relatively young company with fast upgrade times. Neither case exists at SWA. Lots of companies start out hiring with greater restrictions and then relax them as the company matures. jetBlue required 121 PIC time in an aircraft that weighed 20,0000lbs or more when they first started hiring. That requirement is gone. SWA has a great training program and first class facilities. They have trained up APDs as a result of the AT acquisition. It's time to move on and drop the type.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this,... with the possible exception of General Lee. If we got rid of that rating as one of our hiring minimums, then he'd have one less stupid buzzword to throw out when anyone disagrees with him.

About anything.

Bubba
 

General Lee

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I don't think anyone here disagrees with you on this,... with the possible exception of General Lee. If we got rid of that rating as one of our hiring minimums, then he'd have one less stupid buzzword to throw out when anyone disagrees with him.

About anything.

Bubba

Wow, truth hurts. I am just giving differences for potential newhires. There are plenty of differences between SWA and the legacies. Two recent changes to your successful model are stagnation and the lack of "Luv" you're used to from the bosses. But, I guess there are still some out there that will "buy" into that fleeting dream of the last decade.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

SWA Bubba

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Wow, truth hurts. I am just giving differences for potential newhires. There are plenty of differences between SWA and the legacies. Two recent changes to your successful model are stagnation and the lack of "Luv" you're used to from the bosses. But, I guess there are still some out there that will "buy" into that fleeting dream of the last decade.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Buzz!

Right on schedule; thanks for not disappointing me!

Bubba
 

redflyer65

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There is always The University of Phoenix, for an extra $400 they will put you on the football team.


Most likely where Jenny got his.

I doubt they would put in on the football team though. I just heard he had to let out the double breasted blazer because he was counseled by the Chief Pilot for using it as a single button blazer after the holidays. More Meatloaf!
 

General Lee

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Buzz!

Right on schedule; thanks for not disappointing me!

Bubba

And you can't debate it either. Hey, the pilots looking for future employment should read differences, and stagnation, pay for type if you don't already have it, and possible turbulence with Randy and the boys are good things to know.

Anytime Bubba, anytime!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Most likely where Jenny got his.

I doubt they would put in on the football team though. I just heard he had to let out the double breasted blazer because he was counseled by the Chief Pilot for using it as a single button blazer after the holidays. More Meatloaf!

Full Ride, Oxnard College. Became a "Master Debater" at Lubbock Tech.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

slaquer5

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Wow, truth hurts. I am just giving differences for potential newhires. There are plenty of differences between SWA and the legacies. Two recent changes to your successful model are stagnation and the lack of "Luv" you're used to from the bosses. But, I guess there are still some out there that will "buy" into that fleeting dream of the last decade.


Bye Bye---General Lee


Dude


All I ask is to get rid of Charle sheen. How about change it to Texas Tech. . :)


I can't stand looking at him .
 

waveflyer

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Wow, truth hurts. I am just giving differences for potential newhires. There are plenty of differences between SWA and the legacies. Two recent changes to your successful model are stagnation and the lack of "Luv" you're used to from the bosses. But, I guess there are still some out there that will "buy" into that fleeting dream of the last decade.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General- why won't you answer?
Who's had more hiring in the last 3 years since you've been on this stagnation bit? Delta or Swa?

I think you're biting on gK's constant downplay vs the reality at SWA- we had one big 2.5 year stagnation while delta didn't hire either after the financial crisis- and been trickling in ever since. Now that hiring is accelerating.
 

waveflyer

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Seriously-

Charlie sheen man??

What is that about?
 

HowardBorden

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Wow, truth hurts. I am just giving differences for potential newhires. There are plenty of differences between SWA and the legacies. Two recent changes to your successful model are stagnation and the lack of "Luv" you're used to from the bosses. But, I guess there are still some out there that will "buy" into that fleeting dream of the last decade.

Thank you for the compare and contrast. My only question is when will you be finished shouting it from the rooftops? Could there be a single person on this board that has not heard you're wildly informative diatribe? Is there someone left on the planet that has not had the opportunity to listen to you explain these differences? We all get it: pay for training, Lubbock overnights, 737 for possibly the rest of your career, stagnation and no retirements! Can we please find something else to incessantly inform all the newbies out there that come here for you to tell them how it is?
 

redflyer65

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Maybe change it to his new Porn Star fiance. Brett Rossi.

I might actually like to read his post after that instead of tuning him out.
 

Mercyful Fate

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Genital likes homosexual overtones...I guarantee he has spent many a night in the basement tugging away at Top Gun....He will say it was only because of the cool airplanes, but we really know...
 

General Lee

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General- why won't you answer?
Who's had more hiring in the last 3 years since you've been on this stagnation bit? Delta or Swa?

I think you're biting on gK's constant downplay vs the reality at SWA- we had one big 2.5 year stagnation while delta didn't hire either after the financial crisis- and been trickling in ever since. Now that hiring is accelerating.

Yes, last decade was good for you guys, which was my point. Now, things have honestly changed. Stagnation is coming because your airline has a lot fewer retirements scheduled, merged with a lot of youngish AT pilots, and your expansion plane wise is coming in the form of more seats per plane, vs more planes. The 737-800s are replacing more 737-300/500s that will be leaving. So, stagnation, especially compared to each legacy losing 5,000 pilots EACJ, is gonna happen.

Next, that "luving feeling" your bosses used to shower on you is leaving. They used to negotiate like Cowboys, go in a room, debate it out, spit on their hands and shake. Now, they have to get Randy Babbitt? Huh? Not a good sign. You'd think after that one sided SLI there might be quick negotiations, but I guess not. It's just a culture change that most of the rest of is didn't expect. Plenty thought that was one of the great things about your company, including me. Many many times I stated that one of the things besides high pay I liked about your company was your "current" great relationship with management. I guess I might have been right about using "current." It looks like turbulence ahead, and I hope you guys keep the bar heading upwards.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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General Lee

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Thank you for the compare and contrast. My only question is when will you be finished shouting it from the rooftops? Could there be a single person on this board that has not heard you're wildly informative diatribe? Is there someone left on the planet that has not had the opportunity to listen to you explain these differences? We all get it: pay for training, Lubbock overnights, 737 for possibly the rest of your career, stagnation and no retirements! Can we please find something else to incessantly inform all the newbies out there that come here for you to tell them how it is?

I get daily PMs asking for advice. Which legacy are you going to apply to? PM me and I'll give you free advice.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

General Lee

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Seriously-

Charlie sheen man??

What is that about?

He's a funny guy with some great quotes. The picture was interesting, and the statement below his picture described my situation.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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