Southwest looks to grow where rivals downsize

[dicko]

Back to the original topic of SWA amazing growth

How fluck did the DAL CEO convince GK to only fly one direct flight from all the west coast cities to Atlanta? One direct flight ! Not only did GK give up all but one direct flight to the busiest airport in the world, he also made the only flight a day a red eye.

LAX to ATL. One flight a day and it's a red eye. SFO and SEA are the same. I guess there's no money in it ? DAL must be losing money on the twelve flights a day that are all full ?

Bravo GK. Bravo Sir. Atlanta has been conquered.

 

[waveflyer]

True-
You should be CEO dicko

We all know that, but Gary's got the job

 

[General Lee]

Back to the original topic of SWA amazing growth

How fluck did the DAL CEO convince GK to only fly one direct flight from all the west coast cities to Atlanta? One direct flight ! Not only did GK give up all but one direct flight to the busiest airport in the world, he also made the only flight a day a red eye.

LAX to ATL. One flight a day and it's a red eye. SFO and SEA are the same. I guess there's no money in it ? DAL must be losing money on the twelve flights a day that are all full ?

Bravo GK. Bravo Sir. Atlanta has been conquered.

I know Red and Wave can't wait to fly those allnighters! Combine a West Coast to ATL allnighter with a LBB layover a day later within the 4 day trip, and I can totally see why you guys would never apply to a legacy during this upcoming hiring boom.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[808pilot]

So I have no dog in this fight nor will I ever and I have friends at both companies...
I have been reading these debates for awhile and can't help but laugh... How exactly does having a college degree compare to being required to have a type rating? Unless you went to riddle or und or some other four year flight academy do you really know you want to be a pilot? Much less at delta? I have a degree in geography... Wanted to be a teacher but flying caught my interest more... Having that degree makes me a PFT'er? I don't think so... Yet once someone has chosen the path to become a pilot at this day and age and they know they want to get on at southwest they HAVE to get a type rating... Side question... How many get hired at southwest who don't have a four year degree? Just curious... I honestly don't know the answer...
I believe compass is another company that makes you pay for your type... Are they PFT? They are regional so I'm gonna guess yes... The argument that you can write it off on taxes is great... Justify it all you want...
I'm not bashing anyone for the path they take to get their dream job... I just have to laugh at the continued denial of paying for a type rating to get a job. It cannot be disputed. Cough up 5-7k and in a week it's done... Boom. Awesome. They have a type rating that only one airline requires... Have a degree and you have marketability for multiple airlines that may have "college preferred"...
Feel free to explain it to me better... The IPA at the hotel bar is now blurring my thought process... Be stoked you all have good jobs and not suffering like the guys in the regionals trying to jump ship to better paying pastures...

 

[808pilot]

And no I'm not at a regional and no I have never nor plan to apply at either southwest or delta(both kickass companies)

 

[scoreboardII]

So I have no dog in this fight nor will I ever and I have friends at both companies...
I have been reading these debates for awhile and can't help but laugh... How exactly does having a college degree compare to being required to have a type rating? Unless you went to riddle or und or some other four year flight academy do you really know you want to be a pilot? Much less at delta? I have a degree in geography... Wanted to be a teacher but flying caught my interest more... Having that degree makes me a PFT'er? I don't think so... Yet once someone has chosen the path to become a pilot at this day and age and they know they want to get on at southwest they HAVE to get a type rating... Side question... How many get hired at southwest who don't have a four year degree? Just curious... I honestly don't know the answer...
I believe compass is another company that makes you pay for your type... Are they PFT? They are regional so I'm gonna guess yes... The argument that you can write it off on taxes is great... Justify it all you want...
I'm not bashing anyone for the path they take to get their dream job... I just have to laugh at the continued denial of paying for a type rating to get a job. It cannot be disputed. Cough up 5-7k and in a week it's done... Boom. Awesome. They have a type rating that only one airline requires... Have a degree and you have marketability for multiple airlines that may have "college preferred"...
Feel free to explain it to me better... The IPA at the hotel bar is now blurring my thought process... Be stoked you all have good jobs and not suffering like the guys in the regionals trying to jump ship to better paying pastures...

I had a type before hiring, didn't pay a penny, got hired anyway, sorry to burst your bubble. So no it's not PFT. PFT is paying the company or owing the company some monetary sum, sorry. next.

By your logic, though, your college degree is PFT, your ATP, private, commercial, multi, all of it, PFT. If your company was so pure and didn't require all those things, shouldn't they do the right thing and hire you off the street and GIVE you all those ratings?

SWA is not PFT. Grow up.

 

[808pilot]

By my logic? I said I got a degree before I decided I wanted to be a pilot... What!? Congrats you had the type before hand... YOU did not have to go out of your way to get a type rating... Others do... By YOUR logic EVERY pilot that becomes an airline pilot is PFT... I don't give two s__ts about how people got where they did... They got there and should be stoked! I remember now why I stopped posting... Some uptight people on here...

 

[Dan Roman]

So I have no dog in this fight nor will I ever and I have friends at both companies...
I have been reading these debates for awhile and can't help but laugh... How exactly does having a college degree compare to being required to have a type rating? Unless you went to riddle or und or some other four year flight academy do you really know you want to be a pilot? Much less at delta? I have a degree in geography... Wanted to be a teacher but flying caught my interest more... Having that degree makes me a PFT'er? I don't think so... Yet once someone has chosen the path to become a pilot at this day and age and they know they want to get on at southwest they HAVE to get a type rating... Side question... How many get hired at southwest who don't have a four year degree? Just curious... I honestly don't know the answer...
I believe compass is another company that makes you pay for your type... Are they PFT? They are regional so I'm gonna guess yes... The argument that you can write it off on taxes is great... Justify it all you want...
I'm not bashing anyone for the path they take to get their dream job... I just have to laugh at the continued denial of paying for a type rating to get a job. It cannot be disputed. Cough up 5-7k and in a week it's done... Boom. Awesome. They have a type rating that only one airline requires... Have a degree and you have marketability for multiple airlines that may have "college preferred"...
Feel free to explain it to me better... The IPA at the hotel bar is now blurring my thought process... Be stoked you all have good jobs and not suffering like the guys in the regionals trying to jump ship to better paying pastures...

Well said, I don't fault anyone if they want to buy a type to get a job. It's particularly hypocritical for legacy pilots to point fingers. Their ranks are filled with senior pilots who bought an F/E rating to get the job. That said, it is hardly comparable to an airline requiring a higher level of education (college degree) from its applicants. Buying a type certainly has been a good investment for someone if it got them the job they wanted at SWA, and you can say the same about someone who bought RJ training if it got them the experience they needed to move up in their career.

All of us have done what we felt we had to do to become qualified pilots. I flew DC-3's for free when I was 19 and flew B-99's for peanuts in a hope to get a job with the "Majors". It paid off. I'm sure as he'll not gonna ridicule what anybody does to advance themselves ( except scabbing).

 

[waveflyer]

Well said dan

And I'm there with you on college-
For me, college was worth twice what I paid and it wasn't cheap- but I absolutely believe in personal development - for me, college was integral in that and continues to be. Still love taking classes here and there even if not in a college environment. You're either curious or not, educated or not- college opened up lots of doors and my mind to various careers and even ways of life. Now ya if ever regret that degree regardless of job requirements

I think it's dumb to compare the type to a degree as well

But it's just as dumb to criticize swa for the type requirement. They clearly can command it, so what's it to anyone if it's there?

Only those with an invested interest in the homogenization of airline pilots cares.

 

[808pilot]

wave best post yet

 

[canyonblue]

But it's just as dumb to criticize swa for the type requirement. They clearly can command it, so what's it to anyone if it's there?

Exactly. If you want to work at Southwest, and enjoy the benefits of working for a financially stable carrier where you will enjoy coming to work, pay the entry fee. If that's not your style, Delto's hiring.

 

[redflyer65]

Just make sure you have the degree for DELTO. It's kinda hard to run out and get a four year degree. Good luck!

 

[HowardBorden]

By my logic? I said I got a degree before I decided I wanted to be a pilot... What!? Congrats you had the type before hand... YOU did not have to go out of your way to get a type rating... Others do... By YOUR logic EVERY pilot that becomes an airline pilot is PFT... I don't give two s__ts about how people got where they did... They got there and should be stoked! I remember now why I stopped posting... Some uptight people on here...

In the end it is all a ridiculous comparison.

The vast majority of all SWA pilots have a degree and I will submit in this day and age you will not be the most "desirable" candidate without a degree. So in essence SWA generally requires a degree and a type rating. Sure there have been those hired without a degree but I will guess that number is pretty small in the last decade.

To equate the type requirement to PFT falls short of the meaning PAY for training. SWA is not charging anyone money to issue them a type so if that money is in fact paid it surely is not to SWA. A common misconception is that it saves SWA money, also absolutely false. SWA is in no way rewarded credit toward Part 121 training requirements because of the applicant having a type rating. 121 training requirements are the exact same for every airline. Every airline has to check the same number of boxes for a new hire with a type rating on the aircraft they are training for regardless of whether or not they have a type rating in that aircraft. Direct proof is shown through AirTran pilots transitioning are given the same program as new hires with a type.

Thousands of SWA pilots came to the company with a type provided by a previous employer or the good old US government. How did they get hired without paying for a type? The reason it gets compared to a degree is usually because the same person that says well you had to resort for PFT to get a job works for an airline that requires a college degree in order to even get an interview. Without that sheepskin you need not apply. SWA will at least interview applicants without the type in order start the process. Many like myself interviewed without the type because SWA was one of the only airlines consistently hiring over the last 15 years. Don't get me wrong SWA was always high up my list as a preferred employer but when they are the only airline consistently hiring for a long stretch of time many looking to move on to bigger and better things sent in the application without a type rating. The choice was easy for me. I was offered a job at a strong company paying the highest narrow body wages, by far. On top of that the first year pay at minimum guarantee was more than $15,000 higher than the VAST majority of other airlines first year wages AND THEY WEREN'T HIRING. I did what most would do I took the job that was offered and paid for the type. In the end I'm many years in and many dollars on the positive side for my decision not to mention quite happy with my work environment.

Would I have received a job offer with no degree and no type, to be truthful I probably would have been less desirable and therefore less likely to get a job offer. Would I even been allowed to apply at some places without a degree, most definitely not. I am currently working on a Masters degree. Although I personally hope I will never be forced to look for another flying job, the Masters is for personal goals not work related at all. Many got a degree for personal satisfaction as well all the while knowing it would allow them professional advancement as well. Getting a degree is smart no matter who you are and where you want to work. I would never call that PFT. However, some will spend much less money for a 737 type rating without a degree and are able to be rewarded personally and financially for that decision. It is simply a sound career investment for many.

 

[canyonblue]

Just make sure you have the degree for DELTO. It's kinda hard to run out and get a four year degree. Good luck!

There is always The University of Phoenix, for an extra $400 they will put you on the football team.

 

[humveedriver]

I think the type rating requirement should go away. In 3 years years we will have the Max and folks will still be going to Higher Power to get their -200 type rating. Which is going to be useless. I can understand requiring a type if a company hires street captains or is a relatively young company with fast upgrade times. Neither case exists at SWA. Lots of companies start out hiring with greater restrictions and then relax them as the company matures. jetBlue required 121 PIC time in an aircraft that weighed 20,0000lbs or more when they first started hiring. That requirement is gone. SWA has a great training program and first class facilities. They have trained up APDs as a result of the AT acquisition. It's time to move on and drop the type.