Southwest "exits" runway.....again.

[SWA Bubba]

Rip me all you want. Your facts don't come from a reliable source. You run airplanes off the runway like its no big deal.

It's well known how you operate. It's not a secret. You can't cover it up much longer.

"Facts"? Well, seeing as how you have absolutely no facts whatsoever for your argument, that just makes you a blowhard. However, you did make one true statement, in that how Southwest operates is no secret to anyone, least of all the FAA. Do you know how many times the FAA has attributed taxi speed to any type of incident at Southwest? None. Do you know how many times the FAA has even brought up taxi speed as an issue to Southwest? None. The only people who seem to care are annonymous dipsh*ts like you who use it for anti-SWA fodder when they've got nothing constructive to add.

Still afraid to say what airline YOU work for Rajflyboy? Since you seem to fall into the category of dumbasses who don't know the difference between a taxiway and a runway (your aisnine quote above), I suppose I could guess Continental, seeing as how they inadvertantly landed on a taxiway at EWR a few years back. By the way, I'm not trying to slam Continental here; just pointing out that stuff happens to all of us. However, Southwest seems to garner the most bashing on FI.

Bubba

 

[tankerhead]

lookup Exodus Yogg+0, you'll see my guild getting a world first... and then having it taken away shortly thereafter by Blizzard...

anyway, back to the regularly scheduled FI banter.

I tried to watch that, but this popped up. Hmmm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRqzMQl6qtM

 

[HA25]

I tried to watch that, but this popped up. Hmmm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRqzMQl6qtM

Here, let me google that for you!

 

[tankerhead]

Mine was better.

 

[HA25]

Mine was better.

I'm picking up what you're planting now....

 

[scoreboardII]

...................

 

[DCAA320]

I have seen the taxiway myself with the jet in the mud. I dont believe speed was even close to be a factor. The taxiway curved and i think both pilots were head down.

Well if they both had there heads down, their speed should have been zero.

You should have seen the face of they captain when I told him to stop ********************ing with the FMS on a skinny taxiway while taxiing.

 

[Scoot 11]

Actually, since absolutely nobody got hurt (just like last time), I'd say that we're only giving guys like you fodder for SWA bashing. Hmmm.... "over and over and over again"... I suppose things never happen to other airlines. So what airline do YOU work for? The perfect one, I'd imagine.

Say, aren't you the guy who's normally drunk when you post?

Bubba

That's a pretty cavalier attitude. I was in JAX last month. Pushed back, and while waiting for the salute, we had a SWA jet taxi by us so fast while his wing tip actually went over our Marshallers head! You guys have a habit of taxiing fast, and it's a dangerous game. But as long as "nobody gets hurt," for now!

 

[SWA Bubba]

That's a pretty cavalier attitude. I was in JAX last month. Pushed back, and while waiting for the salute, we had a SWA jet taxi by us so fast while his wing tip actually went over our Marshallers head! You guys have a habit of taxiing fast, and it's a dangerous game. But as long as "nobody gets hurt," for now!

So what are you saying? If he was taxiing slower, the wingtip wouldn't have gone over your marshaller's head? How was his speed relevant to his position? If your marshaller is on an active taxiway, or a SWA jet in JAX taxied through your ramp area, then that's a different problem unrelated to taxi speed.

My point was not to be cavalier about safety. It was that this was a minor incident, unrelated to taxi speed, nobody was hurt, and this kind of stuff happens to all airlines on occasion. However, as usual, it brings out all the SWA bashers, barking out their azzes, without having any facts up front.

Everyone's got a "Southwest taxis too fast" anecdote. If just half of them were literally true, there would be SWA pilots violated left and right.

Bubba

 

[AirMike]

I was taxiing out in CLE a few years back. A squall line was approaching the airport. We were number 3 in line when the gust front hit. While we were sitting in our Boeing, tower reports microburst alert approach end 40kts. About 10 seconds later the SWA cowboys cross the threshold and land despite an active microburst alert.

That's the worst I've ever seen from SWA but the "rush rush" attitude is endemic to that organization. They are incentivized to hurry.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Glad you are enjoying the misfortunes of fellow aviators Mr Bill. Even if you think some dudes on FI are jerks, why the enjoyment of this incident?

No enjoyment in this incident.....it can happen to ANY airline.

I just love the Herb Turds and the usual SWAbashers going at it. It's pure entertainment!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I have seen the taxiway myself with the jet in the mud. I dont believe speed was even close to be a factor. The taxiway curved and i think both pilots were head down.

Then they were going too fast for for 2 pilots heads down ops, that is the beauty of prima facie concept.

 

[FCPhotography]

Was in the back of the one in DEN last month. 1/4 mile vis, heavy snow and CAT3 to get in. We were not taxing fast at all. Anti-skid cycled, nose wheel didn't grab, reversers full reverse as we glided gently into the grass.
The taxi way was 100% solid ice and it was very difficult walking to the buses.

That day the temps in DEN were above freezing. When we landed the temp was in the low 20's (according to the airport ops that night) and not one taxi way or runway was treated. We were taxiing so slow I thought I was going to miss my connecting flight, which I ended up missing anyway.

Have to disagree with the SWA bashing on this one. Why wasn't it Delta? Because Delta has 3 gates there and they land 1 plane every hour. SWA has 35 gates and they land 30 planes an hour. Then why wasn't it United? Sometimes it is United. DEN has 2-3 planes (mainline or RJ) leave the taxi way or runway every year. Remember the Continental 2 years ago, or the DAL heavy landing on a taxi way in ATL? Or the DC-9 that hit the AirBus in MSP because they turned off the brakes by shutting the wrong engine down on the taxi in? Don't remember one person saying they better slow down.

 

[Dan Roman]

We all live in glass houses, but as Bill said it's kind of entertaining watching the SWA debates on here! What would happen to FI if we didn't have them?
I'm a little surprised you SWA guys don't bring up DAL's troubles in the 90's as ammunition. (Sorry General)
That said, SWA does taxi faster, on average, than any other airline. I've seen SWA many times operate in a way that is less than professional in order to try and cut in front of other airplanes ( although the worst I ever saw was one of my colleagues doing it to competitor about 20 years ago, but that's a different story) and flying like you are Tony Stewart does undermine safety. It's the only reason a SWA 737 went off the runway in BUR. You guys can get away with it because you spend your entire career doing nothing but fly 737's and doing lot's of segments so you are good at flying them, but it isn't a very professional way to operate.

 

[SWAdude]

and flying like you are Tony Stewart does undermine safety. It's the only reason a SWA 737 went off the runway in BUR.

Being a part of that investigation you couldn't be more wrong. There is so much bad info on this board it is no longer trustworthy. Many people making up alot of BS because of some inner thing they have going on.

I have flown for three major airlines and the most professional has been SWA. Every airline has some that make us all look bad. Being in the SWA system for almost twenty years I just haven't seen what some of you are saying and I am in much more of a position to witness those behaviors. I have witnessed much more aggressive behavior from others than ours. Contrary to FI folklore, we are not always in a hurry. It is not our culture today. We are largely a happy pilot group that feel how delicate our job is and have much to lose. We are not going to risk our families or our own future by operating what some here are saying, carelessly. That is just farking stupid to think otherwise.

If you think taxing 30 knots on a straight taxiway is unprofessional and careless then you must be scared sh......itless landing at 135 kts. Use some common sense here.

 

[Dan Roman]

OK I'll bite.....and admit I am basing my opinion on recalling a report that said he was at the outer marker clean and doing something in the neighborhood of 250 kts. That's all I remember of the accident report. If that's true though, the fact remains, he was in a hurry, that's why he went off the runway.
Don't know where you get I am afraid of taxing 30 kts in a straight line. I'm talking about rushing to get ahead of others, going fast and then having to jam on the brakes so hard you can see the airplane rock back and forth etc etc.

 

[SWA Bubba]

We all live in glass houses, but as Bill said it's kind of entertaining watching the SWA debates on here! What would happen to FI if we didn't have them?
I'm a little surprised you SWA guys don't bring up DAL's troubles in the 90's as ammunition. (Sorry General)
That said, SWA does taxi faster, on average, than any other airline. I've seen SWA many times operate in a way that is less than professional in order to try and cut in front of other airplanes ( although the worst I ever saw was one of my colleagues doing it to competitor about 20 years ago, but that's a different story) and flying like you are Tony Stewart does undermine safety. It's the only reason a SWA 737 went off the runway in BUR. You guys can get away with it because you spend your entire career doing nothing but fly 737's and doing lot's of segments so you are good at flying them, but it isn't a very professional way to operate.

Well, thanks Dan (and Bill as well) for acknowledging the SWA bashing on this and other threads. At least you two guys don't hide your airline's identities and ONLYpost to bash SWA, like some alcoholics on this forum (not to mention any names or anything! )

And I don't personally bring up other airlines troubles other than to refute specific stuff. Like you guys all know, we ALL live in glass houses, stuff happens to ALL our airlines, and most of the time it's a case of "there but for the grace of God, go I."

I'll grant you that Southwest does taxi faster, on average, than many other airlines. However, that doesn't make it unsafe or even unprofessional. Some airlines taxi inordinately and absurdly slow, just to pad their block times and paychecks, regardless of how it affects everyone else using the airport. Is THAT behavior professional?

Our rules say a max of 20kts in general, or 30kts on long straightaways (like parallels). Like I said before, the FAA knows our limits, monitors our compliance, and has never had an issue with our taxi speed. Nor have they ever listed taxi speed as a factor in any Southwest incident.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

OK I'll bite.....and admit I am basing my opinion on recalling a report that said he was at the outer marker clean and doing something in the neighborhood of 250 kts. That's all I remember of the accident report. If that's true though, the fact remains, he was in a hurry, that's why he went off the runway.
Don't know where you get I am afraid of taxing 30 kts in a straight line. I'm talking about rushing to get ahead of others, going fast and then having to jam on the brakes so hard you can see the airplane rock back and forth etc etc.

In that particular incident, the pilot was kept high, and then directed by ATC to keep his speed up. Obviously, in hindsight, he should have refused the clearance, and failing that, should have gone around. But it wasn't simply a case of a Southwest guy just being in "his normal hurry"; he was trying to accomodate ATC's wishes (directions), and then ended up exceeding his airplane (as well as his own) limitations.

As a result of that incident, Southwest changed a lot of procedures relating to stabilized approaches, including directing us in writing to positively refuse certain ATC clearances relating to being stabilized.

Hope this helps,
Bubba

 

[Dan Roman]

Well the truth be known Bubba, I just switched to the A330 and brake temps are BIG issue when taxing. The recommended technique is to allow the speed to increase to 30kts or 35 kts before slowing the A/C down! The reason is to minimize the number of brake applications to keep the temps below 300 degrees before takeoff.
Make no mistake about it, most SWA flights I see taxing are as smooth and professional as anyone. But the few cowboys you see from time to time do usually seem to be SWA, and I have seen a few doozies .

 

[Dan Roman]

In that particular incident, the pilot was kept high, and then directed by ATC to keep his speed up. Obviously, in hindsight, he should have refused the clearance, and failing that, should have gone around. But it wasn't simply a case of a Southwest guy just being in "his normal hurry"; he was trying to accomodate ATC's wishes (directions), and then ended up exceeding his airplane (as well as his own) limitations.

As a result of that incident, Southwest changed a lot of procedures relating to stabilized approaches, including directing us in writing to positively refuse certain ATC clearances relating to being stabilized.

Hope this helps,
Bubba

Thanks, I was wrong, it could happen to anyone. We all live in glass houses!

Happy New Year Dude.