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Southwest breaks ground

redflyer65

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So unemployment is ill will, staple is just business.

We were fighting for every number Luv2B. Would you expect anything less?

And on the flip side, you weren't? Give me a break, your attempt as some flame is clearly BS. Nice try though.
 

Secret Squirrel

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I am pretty sure Airtran was looking at an asset sale with ATA. No planes or pilots. That was how it was explained to me. As far a Midwest Airtran was going to take on a pilot group where a huge portion of their planes were going away (MD80), they had a group with much longer longevity, and our union would not have fought for the best possible integration for our pilots? BS That companies position was so bad they could not get a reasonable merger with republic.
 

Flopgut

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You know, I can't tell if you REALLY just don't get how the world (and this situation) works, or if you're just jacking with me because you don't like the actual reality. Suppose you tell me which.

Bubba

Bubba: You're a good dude. You're not right and you're spoiled rotten by the SWA gravy train, but you're a good dude. Let's put this argument about how the world works on hold until you take the corndog out into it, ok? Other countries are not like Texas my friend.
 

Luv2BFlyin

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We were fighting for every number Luv2B. Would you expect anything less?

And on the flip side, you weren't? Give me a break, your attempt as some flame is clearly BS. Nice try though.

We were striving for fair and equitable, not a home run. Fighting "for every number" is clearly looking for a windfall. I'm one of the numbers you were fighting for. Eventually, I'll be forced to be on your team, I won't forget you "were fighting for every number". Very short-sighted.
 

Luv2BFlyin

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I am pretty sure Airtran was looking at an asset sale with ATA. No planes or pilots. That was how it was explained to me. As far a Midwest Airtran was going to take on a pilot group where a huge portion of their planes were going away (MD80), they had a group with much longer longevity, and our union would not have fought for the best possible integration for our pilots? BS That companies position was so bad they could not get a reasonable merger with republic.

AFA ATA, had the pilot group had a say, it wouldn't have been a straight staple.

Concerning Midwest, we were in talks prior to TPG and further, Republic, I don't know that the 80's would be going away that quickly. We weren't afraid of operating more than one type of aircraft.
 

redflyer65

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We were striving for fair and equitable, not a home run. Fighting "for every number" is clearly looking for a windfall. I'm one of the numbers you were fighting for. Eventually, I'll be forced to be on your team, I won't forget you "were fighting for every number". Very short-sighted.

So you thought AirTran and Southwest jobs were equal? So you want 'fair and equitable' because they were equal? I don't think so. Sorry.

You would have taken a seniority homerun if you could have gotten it, then on the backside...known that you would have almost doubled your income along with the best stability in the industry. But I guess it never was about the money or stability, right? Until it was about money and stability.

Fighting for every number is not a windfall Luv. Sorry. You strive for the best knowing you'll get something less than that. Just like any negotiations.

PS- and when you're on our team, we'd gladly fight for your number in the next acquisition. Because there will probably be one more in the SW future.
 

Secret Squirrel

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Really? We were going to keep md80s, because we were not afraid, when fuel hit 140 a barrel? That combination would have killed AirTran. We barely survived without paying twice too much than Midwest was actually worth. We would be bankrupt watching southwest buy our assets. I know people have worked at AirTran for a while, but did they actually pay attention to what was going on?
 
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madjack

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I think we were all expecting arbitration (I personally expected an arbitor to fence ATL, and protect AAI CP seats, also ratio in the AAI pilots, starting at the top at 1 to 4). I was surprised that mgmt stepped in, and given my expectations, relieved they did...Every pilot at SWA started at the bottom, this deal was the first under the M-B era.. there had never been another similar integration in the SWA pilots collective memory...
 

PCL_128

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Yep

Thats what I keep saying you wanted. Every time you deny it.


Your showing your true colors .

I've never denied that I wanted relative. I would have fought tooth and nail for it, and proposed it to the arbitrator if I were on the MC. No doubt about it.

But what I've denied is that our MC did that. The MC and I disagreed greatly on many points. This is one of them. The MC never proposed relative. Not once. Not even at the beginning.
 

texman

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I think we were all expecting arbitration (I personally expected an arbitor to fence ATL, and protect AAI CP seats, also ratio in the AAI pilots, starting at the top at 1 to 4). I was surprised that mgmt stepped in, and given my expectations, relieved they did...Every pilot at SWA started at the bottom, this deal was the first under the M-B era.. there had never been another similar integration in the SWA pilots collective memory...

If SWA decided to get a larger aircraft then it should be open to all in ATL.
 

scoreboardII

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Wait, I thought you had 100's of FAT aps on file, everybody wants to work for WN, you know how AT would answer.

All kidding aside, while being anecdotal, flying the line as a captain during the talks about both ATA and Midwest Airlines, I personally didn't hear any of our pilots (especially f/o's) speaking of staple, let alone, take their airplanes and run. I personally would have had no problem with either DOH or relative with either group. If we wouldn't have been able to come to agreeable terms, I'd have abided by an arbiter's terms (that's for you PCL ;) ).
Good point, but it ended up being an overall relative SL for SWA pilots (ending career where you started percentage wise), so to try and move that list up for AT pilots, would have harmed SWA pilots, which was a non starter. In essence, SWA pilots "took" not one shred of seniority more than "break even", of course I see how AT feel that's "breaking Bad".:)
 

scoreboardII

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Bubba: You're a good dude. You're not right and you're spoiled rotten by the SWA gravy train, but you're a good dude. Let's put this argument about how the world works on hold until you take the corndog out into it, ok? Other countries are not like Texas my friend.
Holy mother of......, hope we can manage....
 

dicko

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Strawman argument, turn the tables, how would AT answer?


Negotiation followed by arbitration, if the negotiated offer wasn't fair in our opinion.

Strawman argument ? Option (1) was the plan before the perceived threat by SWA management to AirTran pilot jobs. Option (2) is exactly how SWA played ATA, and if legal, would have been wildly supported by a large percentage of SWA pilots. 'Red' only wanted a staple of our entire pilot group. Of course, he's a moderate with no ill will.

What were the Morris pilots offered after they started to get uppity ?
 

dicko

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I was a SWA Captain a few days ago with a "Flattish won't Fly" bag tag, which was cool. He was wearing a hat, which was confusing. He was also wearing large ironic hipster glasses, which looked weird, with the hat.

Strange days are these.
 

HowardBorden

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Good point, but it ended up being an overall relative SL for SWA pilots (ending career where you started percentage wise)
I ended up less than one half of one percent different at retirement with the acquisition as opposed to without it, which is all I ever thought I was entitled to. Some may argue I wasn't entitled to that but I will respectfully disagree.
 

redflyer65

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Negotiation followed by arbitration, if the negotiated offer wasn't fair in our opinion.

Strawman argument ? Option (1) was the plan before the perceived threat by SWA management to AirTran pilot jobs. Option (2) is exactly how SWA played ATA, and if legal, would have been wildly supported by a large percentage of SWA pilots. 'Red' only wanted a staple of our entire pilot group. Of course, he's a moderate with no ill will.

What were the Morris pilots offered after they started to get uppity ?

I never realistically thought we'd be able to staple everyone Dicko, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I think the list should have turned out similar to what we have now, with the one exception that the AirTran captains hold captain if their seniority held it.

Howard,

I don't upgrade one day earlier with this deal. Not one day, so I'm right there with you.
 

scoreboardII

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Negotiation followed by arbitration, if the negotiated offer wasn't fair in our opinion.

Strawman argument ? Option (1) was the plan before the perceived threat by SWA management to AirTran pilot jobs. Option (2) is exactly how SWA played ATA, and if legal, would have been wildly supported by a large percentage of SWA pilots. 'Red' only wanted a staple of our entire pilot group. Of course, he's a moderate with no ill will.

What were the Morris pilots offered after they started to get uppity ?
I call BS, if AT pilots ruled the dealing, and had only those two options, it would go 99 percent choice 2. It's called human nature.

What resulted was negotiations.

That's why your supposition is a strawman.
 
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