Southwest Airlines expected to expand Denver flights

[jke406]

The only thing the flying public cares about is the fare. There is no customer loyalty in the airlines anymore.

Come to think of it, there is no employer loyalty, either.

 

[Benhuntn]

Any idea when the hedges run out? I remember when they ran out in 07 and now 09. Gee if oil is 200 a barrel will we stop hedging or just hedge it at 100 a barrel? 100 bucks a barrel and hedged at 50 buck for 90% of 08's estimated useage. Just a fact.

 

[Larcifer]

Nothing personal, Peanutski, but in an already tough environment in Denver, in comes the "Purple Cancer" complete with arrogant asses like yourself. Waving? How 'bout a nice salute? I need to submit the usual disclaimer about how not all SWA guys/gals are such complete tools, but this is the last thing F9 needs is some little p-rick kicking sand in everybody's faces.

Y'know, SWA used to be the underdog, and has profited quite well after making it through some challenging times. Used to be SWA was a "buncha good ol' boys flyin' jets." Now, with tards like 737ski, it seems that the arrogance is overwhelming. Scared? You bet I am - we've seen this cancer develop across the nation. F9 is kind to passengers, puts out a great product, and has a devout following in the Denver area. It seems a shame to lose ANY market share to the peanut gallery under the auspices that SWA somehow has lower fares. What an industry...

....And they are somehow different than us(F9) if we truly had a better product or if the pax give a crap we would have pricing power. F9 is just another poorly run LCC thats day has come to pass. At least F9 holding will do well when mainlines assets are turned into RJs and turboprops. Glad we give up on our scope so we could see mainline explode...not!

 

[Dude]

Hey Furloughed Dude,

I hate to break it to ya but service is seen less than the mighty Yeti these days. Frontier has a good product but the lack of service argument has been in Denver for years now. United, NWA, DAL, USAir, and all of the legacies, for that matter, deliver poor service. It is rare that a customer is treated like a customer at the airlines. Having said that, Southwest isn't the shining beacon it used to be either. There isn't a company out there that is. They all suck and treat people like morons and the only excuse we have is they only paid $65.00 for their trouble. We are an affirmative-action kinda country that rewards buffonnery with promotion and refuses to terminate the most incompetent. Nowhere is this more evident than the airline industry. Sadly, it isn't exclusive to the non-skilled labor side of the house. Pilots get their jobs back after the most negligent of behavior. The entire industry doesn't give a $hit anymore. There is far less do-gooders out there than folks that call sick on Christmas and treat the customer poorly. Please don't compare the "cattle-car" boarding to lack of service. Face it, we all suck at service and if it weren't for the fact that tickets were so damn cheap people wouldn't line up at the airport to be insulted for the entire day. Some of us are just less $hitty at it than others, but hardly any of us are any good at it. I wish the best to every poor schmuck out there that is about to have his butt handed to him as a result of consolidation.

 

[Dizel8]

What came first, the chicken or the egg??

I would argue, that low cost wins all the times and that Joe Pax doesn't give a hoot about service. I should rephrase that, he wants it and bitches when he doesn't get it, but he sure isn't willing to pay for it.

We have seen all airlines draw down on service, since it all comes down to price. Now however, having said that, there are still people who prefers one carrier to another, LUV may not serve meals but plenty of people swear by them, CAL is highly regarded and AMR is the worlds largest for a reason, so they most all be doing somehing right.

As for Frontier, the times I have been on them, I have found the service excellent.

I am always reminded of a letter in the Detroit Free Press, at least I think it was. Anyway, in the opinion section, someone was lamenting about the increase in fares on NWA on certain routes, mind you, this was right after the Reno Air pullout. It was funny, in as much as this person clearly was flying on NWA and just appreciated Reno Air for lowering the fares, but was never going to fly on them.

As sad as it is to say, I hope the consumer keeps chasing the lowest fare, because I cannot wait to hear the bitching when all that is left is the service levels of Skybus.

 

[GuppyWN]

Hey Furloughed Dude,

I hate to break it to ya but service is seen less than the mighty Yeti these days. Frontier has a good product but the lack of service argument has been in Denver for years now. United, NWA, DAL, USAir, and all of the legacies, for that matter, deliver poor service. It is rare that a customer is treated like a customer at the airlines. Having said that, Southwest isn't the shining beacon it used to be either. There isn't a company out there that is. They all suck and treat people like morons and the only excuse we have is they only paid $65.00 for their trouble. We are an affirmative-action kinda country that rewards buffonnery with promotion and refuses to terminate the most incompetent. Nowhere is this more evident than the airline industry. Sadly, it isn't exclusive to the non-skilled labor side of the house. Pilots get their jobs back after the most negligent of behavior. The entire industry doesn't give a $hit anymore. There is far less do-gooders out there than folks that call sick on Christmas and treat the customer poorly. Please don't compare the "cattle-car" boarding to lack of service. Face it, we all suck at service and if it weren't for the fact that tickets were so damn cheap people wouldn't line up at the airport to be insulted for the entire day. Some of us are just less $hitty at it than others, but hardly any of us are any good at it. I wish the best to every poor schmuck out there that is about to have his butt handed to him as a result of consolidation.

Well that pretty much sums it up! :beer:

Laugh or cry bro......... laugh or cry.

Gup

 

[Noserider76]

The difference is, that I've proven the swagger & you haven't... Anymore ?'s...

Don't fool yourself into thinking you have anything to do with a successful airline. You think your customers give a rat's butt whether your nice or you tell dumb jokes over the PA? The only thing economy class customers really care about is price. You need to thank the guys that put in the fuel hedges. Without those you're just another cattle car with some of the highest non-fuel costs in the industry, strapped to a domestic market headed for a slowdown and possible recession.

 

[StopNTSing]

Without those you're just another cattle car with some of the highest non-fuel costs in the industry, strapped to a domestic market headed for a slowdown and possible recession.

The ignorance expressed by some here on FI is just breathtaking at times.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Good luck when your fuel hedges run out.

<sigh> OK....Beetle, let me explain this just one more time...

the Fuel Hedges are a work in progress....the good folks in our fuel purchasing office were negotiating hedges yesterday....they are negotiating hedges today...and they will be negotiaing hedges tomorrow....

SWA is not just sitting on the hedges they have in place now and hoping for the best.

Please look at the history of SWA's management. They have always been proactive....Fuel Hedges are just one example of this.

...sheesh....<eyes rolling>

 

[328dude]

Good luck when your fuel hedges run out.quote]

Oh good lord, this again? Weren't the hedges supposed to run out 2 years ago?

 

[Noserider76]

The ignorance expressed by some here on FI is just breathtaking at times.

Yeah, I know. Especially the ones who go around screaming about how their airline is coming in to kill anything in it's path. And those that think they've had anything to do with their companies ability to undercut prices in just about every market.

 

[ASADFW7]

Good Luck to those who think attacking others is useful. It is mostly a free market. If you think fuel hedging is not playing fair, then look at your management and ask them what are they doing long term to control costs? SWA has a plan expanding in DEN is a small part of that to make money.

 

[Cardinal]

Fuel hedging is cash-intensive. Most carriers, F9 included, don't have the hundreds of millions lying around to make long-term hedging practical.

 

[Whataburger]

interesting Den/frontier info. http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/new...98154.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[furloughed dude]

Dude,

I have to say I agree with you for the most part.....

 

[CitationUltra]

While I would never wish any bad news to all of my friends over at SWA, it would suit me just fine if the big announcement was that they hate denver and were pulling out all aircraft as of the 10th!

We at F9 have held our own and actually profitted on a lot of the competing routes with Southwest, but our current state of the airline is not stellar. Increased competition is not the greatest news at DIA. Sure wish we had that 25 million pissed away on lynx to help buffer $100 oil. Circling the wagons at denver, again, might blow up in our faces.

This really looks like an extension of a move calculated to finish off Frontier, unfortunately. SWA has been laying this groundwork for two years, with last year having been a sort of wearing down with fares and capacity, which drained away F9s cash reserves.

As you pointed out, they also "pissed away" the $25 million on the Lynx start-up ($20 million of it unnecessarily) and added no revenue. SWA knows that too.

A very sad state of affairs for the great employees--and for the stockholders--of Frontier Holdings.

 

[CitationUltra]

Delete double post.

 

[learherkjay]

This really looks like an extension of a move calculated to finish off Frontier, unfortunately. SWA has been laying this groundwork for two years, with last year having been a sort of wearing down with fares and capacity, which drained away F9s cash reserves.

There is no "calculated" plan to kill off
Frontier. It is called connecting the dots to a new market in hopes of making more moeny. Whether F9 or UAL are there or not doesn't matter. Frontier flies almost all of it's flights out or to DEN. They have a great product and a loyal DEN customer base. Southwest is big in a lot of different cities. So, when a lot of those loyal customers in others places want to go to DEN, SWA would like to take them there and back instead of someone else. So, let's drop the SWA is the exterminator on the block. It is just simple business; DEN has a lot of traffic and SWA is just simply trying to make some money off of it.

Good luck to all involved

 

[CitationUltra]

There is no "calculated" plan to kill off
Frontier. It is called connecting the dots to a new market in hopes of making more moeny. Whether F9 or UAL are there or not doesn't matter. Frontier flies almost all of it's flights out or to DEN. They have a great product and a loyal DEN customer base. Southwest is big in a lot of different cities. So, when a lot of those loyal customers in others places want to go to DEN, SWA would like to take them there and back instead of someone else. So, let's drop the SWA is the exterminator on the block. It is just simple business; DEN has a lot of traffic and SWA is just simply trying to make some money off of it.

Good luck to all involved

You are quite naive. Competitive predation has been a consistent theme in this segment of the industry since deregulation.

Yes, it's "just business" but the casualties are real nonetheless.

 

[Gandalf]

But it is good for the consumer....the Customer...remember that guy? IT's really all about the Customer.

Look at the Wright Amendment....after all the bluster and hoo-hah...It seems that DFW did not turn into an empty praire....DAL didn't have multiple hub turns all day long with 777's to far flung places.

BUT...the customer is the one who has benefitted...from more choices, more destinations and lower fares...at both airports

Yes, cuz' thats what this industry needs more of.....lower fares. No wonder most of the airlines are in bankruptcy and merging.

It is the low fare mentality of the customer that hurts us all. They want the first class meal and drink service, route and aircraft choices, and dirt low fares from LA to NY at the last minute.

If you walk into a BMW dealership with $15,000 you would be laughed out of the store. They have priced their product to make a profit.

However, we here in the airline industry like to price our product to take a loss....See that tv special on American Airlines.....a trans-con. on a 67 made them a whopping $200. Wow.

And when we raise fares a whooping $5 to cover a crude oil price of $100/barrel the passengers, driven by the media, freaks out.

So, yes good for the consumer at one point, but ultimately that low, low fare is coming full circle to bite him in the a$$.