Southwest 300 / 500 question

[wood pecker]

How is the -300, 500, different from the 700?

I know it's same type but all we have access to is 700 stuff via our training site. I'm currently 71 so I have no clue on any of the 73 stuff.
Is navigation and all that fun stuff still like the 700?

 

[XR650R]

How is the -300, 500, different from the 700?

I know it's same type but all we have access to is 700 stuff via our training site. I'm currently 71 so I have no clue on any of the 73 stuff.
Is navigation and all that fun stuff still like the 700?

They're not even close. Hard ball gauges, i.e. no maps, no auto throttles, to name a few. As far as the actual flying characteristics, they're fairly similar. Not too many folks left that get excited when a classic rolls up to the gate. Don't worry though, when you come for your transition training, you'll have about day of transition training to become an expert on the classics.

 

[texman]

Fly it like a -200 lol!

 

[slaquer5]

They're not even close. Hard ball gauges, i.e. no maps, no auto throttles, to name a few. As far as the actual flying characteristics, they're fairly similar. Not too many folks left that get excited when a classic rolls up to the gate.

Very well put. Funny how time flies and technology gets better. The same was true about the 200s vs. 300s. Soon it will 700s vs. XYZ s

 

[SWA Bubba]

How is the -300, 500, different from the 700?

I know it's same type but all we have access to is 700 stuff via our training site. I'm currently 71 so I have no clue on any of the 73 stuff.
Is navigation and all that fun stuff still like the 700?

The -300 and -500 are the same as far as the pilots are concerned. The only difference is 15 pax seats and about 10' of length. However, from them to the -700 is vastly different. You know the -700 from your airline: glass, EFIS, full-up auto throttle and VNAV. The -300s, on the other hand, have round dials, no auto throttles, and no navigation moving map. They're as different from your full-up 717 as you can get, ie. your plane is a generation or so ahead of the -300.

In practical operation, we use VNAV in the -300, but you manipulate the throttles yourself. Also, the -300 throttles are direct linkage (cables and stuff), so there's more "tweaking" the throttles, and sometimes you see a split that you don't see in a -700. Also, surprisingly, a lot of pilots believe it's easier to get consistently smoother landings in the -300 over the -700. The mechs say it's because of a slightly different linkage bracing the main gear, and there's less "slop" in the -700, so that you're more likely to get the 'shudder' if you're even in even the slightest crab when you touchdown. I don't know about that, though; all my landings are greased on!

There's lots of other, less consequential differences, but most importantly, there's only one cupholder per pilot in the -300 instead of the two per pilot in the -700. Bummer.

Hope this helps,
Bubba

 

[Candide]

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/1/6/2/1451261.jpg

This photo is pretty accurate except:

1. Way too clean. There's usually at least a solid 1/4 inch of dust under the fire handles!

2. Most (but not all) of our Classics now have two CDUs, thereby enabling VNAV.

Hope this helps. Look forward to seeing you on the line!

 

[Quimby]

717 vs. DC-9

same thing

 

[scoreboardII]

No autothrottles so the warning for that is the overspeed clacker when you level off after climb and the stick shaker when you level after idle descent.

 

[wood pecker]

Holy crap that cockpit picture was scarier than a haunted house. Look forward to learning, thanks.

 

[atv797]

http://origin-www.airliners.net/pho...0487414/&sid=54706b3e4f3b938b02f69c89aa2c4dfa

is that beautiful or what ?

 

[CF34-3B1]

Other important stuff: The bag storage area under the jumpseat in the 700's has a flat floor, so you can just lay your bag flat and roll it in. The classics have a screw sticking up, so you need to lift the forward(towards the nose) edge of the bag to get it past the screw. Also the classics tend to be a lot warmer in the summer, although some of the older 700s are getting a bit toasty too. Not uncommon to taxi out with the left pack on the APU and the right on the #2 engine in the summer, then packs on high for climbout. And possibly the biggest safety related difference: The 700's potable water is pressurized by its own compressor, so the A F/A can start making coffee before you start the APU. This is critical on an AM.

 

[johnsonrod]

You will need to learn how to FLY again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One thing about the 300/500 is pretty similar relative to the 700/800 if you think about it: the overhead panel (thanks Southwest for stalling progress!). On a serious note, the way I'd look at it is that it will be your last chance to "enjoy" 1970/80s era aircraft because everything will go digital and in the future and you will pretty much be along for the ride vs. actually flying an aircraft.

Just remember that scene from the movie "Airplane" where they show the 707 cockpit from left to right and it keeps going and going and going - all of those buttons and knobs and switches...

 

[Quimby]

You will need to learn how to FLY again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One thing about the 300/500 is pretty similar relative to the 700/800 if you think about it: the overhead panel (thanks Southwest for stalling progress!). On a serious note, the way I'd look at it is that it will be your last chance to "enjoy" 1970/80s era aircraft because everything will go digital and in the future and you will pretty much be along for the ride vs. actually flying an aircraft.

Just remember that scene from the movie "Airplane" where they show the 707 cockpit from left to right and it keeps going and going and going - all of those buttons and knobs and switches...

Maybe if there were more of the old, 1970's 737's flying around, you could get out of your RJ.

Those switches and knobs and buttons are really tricky. It's very scary piloty stuff.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Maybe if there were more of the old, 1970's 737's flying around, you could get out of your RJ.

Those switches and knobs and buttons are really tricky. It's very scary piloty stuff.

All those knobs and buttons and lights are just for show anyway. No one actually knows what half that crap is. It's just so the pilots look important.

Another vitally important difference between the -700 and the -300 is the all-important factor of F/A satisfaction (and no, I'm not saying the best looking pilots fly the -700; although that may be true, it's immaterial). When flying the -300, it is one of the certainties of aviation that the F/As will be either too hot or too cold. There is absolutely, positvely, damn-certain-tootingly, no friggin' way to get the temperature right. In a -700, you've got a pretty fair shot at getting it halfway decent. In the -300, you've got the same chance as Hitler has of winning the 'Top Humanitarian of the Twentieth Century' award.

But regardless, I just want to say good luck; we're all counting on you.

Bubba

 

[wood pecker]

Thanks for all the info. Now if the first couple of hundred pilots senior to me skip class I'll be good to go. Unless that happens it will be a year or more. Go ahead and start replacing those 3 -500 s w 787s already.

 

[Max Powers]

So is the Sim time done in the -700? And then you do some sort of differences/transition training for the 300&500?

 

[Tripower455]

The biggest advantage to a -300 with VNAV is that it wil stay on path most of the time during a descent. Just pull the throttles to idle at TOD and it'll do the rest.

With the -700s, "what's it doing now" is followed by "MCP SPD" and happens more often than not.

 

[scoreboardII]

you mean VNAV SPD, right?

 

[dicko]

you mean VNAV SPD, right?

I think he means he's given up on VNav and hit Level Change. MCP Speed then becomes the FMA .....

I love acronyms.

 

[XR650R]

Gotta luv Common VNAV. It's like SWA went to Boeing and said "That's great but don't you have anything cheaper?". Then Boeing said, "Well, we can get Common VNAV which really dumbs down the system and is actually going to get crews in trouble with crossing restrictions...wait, how about we bundle Common VNAV with ACARS programming that my 11 year old son programmed for a school project. That really sucks too but we can offer it to you for CHEAP". If course SWA said "We'll take it!". And now you know the rest if the story.

 

[johnsonrod]

Maybe if there were more of the old, 1970's 737's flying around, you could get out of your RJ.

Those switches and knobs and buttons are really tricky. It's very scary piloty stuff.

I'll pass on 30-minute turns, 5-6 legs per day, Lubbock and Islip layovers and 20 year upgrades. But thanks... Enjoy your knobs.

 

[slaquer5]

I'll pass on 30-minute turns, 5-6 legs per day, Lubbock and Islip layovers and 20 year upgrades. But thanks... Enjoy your knobs.

Actually its 10 min turns and 13 - 27 legs a day. Not sure why everyone thinks we only fly 5. I have done 3 MDW LAX turns in one day then still have to repaint the A/C during my layover.

PS Do not believe the rumors about the pay either. I would love to see what you think someone at SWA makes and how many days off they have if you exaggerate everything by X2.5

 

[Zdriver]

Ohhh yea.. and the temp control for the cockpit sucks.. never cools off in the summer, and in the winter it gets COLD up front and there is not much you can do about it.. (auto all the way up to no avail , and MAN will trip a pack)

hint.. turn off elect hydraulic pumps to help the changeover, helps keep the ACARS from dumping.

 

[waveflyer]

hint.. turn off elect hydraulic pumps to help the changeover, helps keep the ACARS from dumping.

Write down your times before you get on ground pwr- sometimes you'll have a kernel who thinks it's against the rules to turn them off first- and now and then it'll dump the times no matter what you do.

 

[Quimby]

I'll pass on 30-minute turns, 5-6 legs per day, Lubbock and Islip layovers and 20 year upgrades. But thanks... Enjoy your knobs.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Best of luck to you.

 

[say again]

Are auto-throttles that important/pertinent? I've never used them, so it's an honest question.

 

[say again]

I'll pass on 30-minute turns, 5-6 legs per day, Lubbock and Islip layovers and 20 year upgrades. But thanks... Enjoy your knobs.

Like the regional you're at is better!! Get real.

 

[waveflyer]

Are auto-throttles that important/pertinent? I've never used them, so it's an honest question.

They're nice, in an addictive way, and important bc in smooth air they're better at maintaining for fuel- which is why mgmt turned them on- but not important for safety

 

[Whataburger]

Are auto-throttles that important/pertinent? I've never used them, so it's an honest question.

No.

They're just one less thing to do while sleeping.

 

[Tripower455]

you mean VNAV SPD, right?

DOH! Yeah, brain fart......

The bottom line is that there's little warning when it gives up and it's not on VNAV path anymore. Most of the 300s will stay on path/speed like they're on rails. All you have to do is remember to pull the throttles to idle at TOD! The 700, not so much......