Southern Air accident in Cairo?

[dutch747]

After your backpedal on the second post, I can see that you already decided that blaming this event on maintentance (based only on heresay) is unprofessional at best...

As a crew member I am sounding off about how I feel about flying with MEL items that seem to never get fixed. If that is unprofessional, so be it.

 

[Dream2fly]

As a crew member I am sounding off about how I feel about flying with MEL items that seem to never get fixed. If that is unprofessional, so be it.

If you are not coming over to join us, please be professional. I am glad we don't have many grumpy people at Southern.
Have a wonderful life at World.

 

[C-141/C-5]

Everybody I talked to at southern (pilots and maintenance) seem to be unsatisfied, misinformed, and given equipment that's unsat. Being professional is doing your job to the best of your abilities and the companies job is to provide you the tools to do your job to the best of your abilities. If management is not providing you tools to do your job(safe, maintenace free airplanes) then that's an unprofessional outfit. Dutch is merely stating that the longer you accept pieces of sh*t and make the operation work they will keep making you fly pieces of sh*t, but as soon as that same pice of sh*t causes an incident then who is to blame???? Will that same company who forced you to fly that piece of sh*t airplane get your back or will they blame the "negligent pilot". Dutch's post is something every "PROFESSIONAL PILOT" should take into account. Being a Professional Pilot is more than accepting an airplane that maintenance or mangement thinks is airworthy. Last I checked the Captain is the final authority and if it dosen't pass the sniff test take a second look.

What is a Captain?

The Captain is the AUDITOR. He is the last piece of the puzzle accepting safety prior to flight. Maintenace is pushing the airplane, mangement is pushing the airplane, scheduling is pushing the airplane, Dispatch is pushing the airplane, that pesky FO wants to meet T/O time. The Captain does not trust anyone and makes sure everything is safe prior to takeoff. The only individual on any flight who shouldn't want to fly is the Captain until it is proven to him that the plane is worthy.

This post is not intended to sling mud, but it's intent is to remember our roots as professional pilots and fly safe especially over the Holidays.

Fly Safe and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[dakotaHC8]

As a crew member I am sounding off about how I feel about flying with MEL items that seem to never get fixed. If that is unprofessional, so be it.

Yeah, right... Sure you were.

 

[pilotbrain]

And maybe right now at UPS they wouldn't hire him. We really need to wait till the facts come out but from what I'm hearing, a contributing factor to this incident was the MX condition of the acft. If this is true, my POINT is that companies who continously allow their acft fly with multiple DMI's really need to re-think this practice. I'm not throwing stones at Southern Air in particular, but flying an acft with dmi stickers everywhere will eventually bite you in tha @ss. This is a perfect example.

Hiring standards at airlines change at the drop of a hat. I hope this doesn't hurt this kids future. My regards to the crew.

It wasn’t the pilot fault, the ground crew said that the chocks where in so the capt. Released the brakes went to the back of the airplane, before the FE had a chances to do his walk around the airplane rolled into the building. The plane has little damage, but because it’s a noise loader it will be down for awhile

 

[dakotaHC8]

This post is not intended to sling mud, but it's intent is to remember our roots as professional pilots and fly safe especially over the Holidays.

What would the internet be, without the Legions of "Know-It-Alls" with the time and motivation to lecture the rest of us how things really are, and how they should be...???

Listen up Pal...

Your whole post was meant to sling mud.

By inference, your claim to know what's "going on" at Southern, tacked onto a few paragraphs about safety + captain authority... implies that there is a problem with such a thing at Southern.

There's not, thank you.

I'm getting real tired of you Cargo 360 guys taking your fustrations out on Southern. You need to get over what happened to your company, and get a clue.

Cago outfits start up, and go out of business all the time... It's part of the industry. Your continuing effort to knock Southern Air Inc. is bad enough, but when you attack our pilot group it becomes personal.

I have never flown anything, or anywhere remotely unsafe... Nor will I.

I shouldn't even have to say that, it is that obvious, but you felt the need to infer that there is some cowboy mentality present at Southern.

Here's the truth, the problem at Southern isn't safety, it's support. I'm not dealing with safety issues (if one comes up, the plane gets parked). I'm dealing with issues related to flying into the places we fly. New destinations, in different countries, on unfamiliar routes, without on-site personnel...

But guess what, that's my job.

I get paid to deal with the fun and games that unscheduled Ad Hoc contracts involve. With your "wealth" of ACMI experience from Cargo 360, pretty much just flying between Incheon and the States, I know you "think" you are in a position to tell everyone on here all about what we do + how we should do it... But you might want to rethink that assumption Sport.

You want to reply to in a PM to me, feel free. But unless you (and your buddies) actually know what happened in Cairo, (then all of you can) feel free to stop trolling on every post that has anything to do with Southern...


Thanks

 

[C-141/C-5]

Pal, Sport...??? (so comical)

No need to PM you. I hope others can learn from our discussions and take whatever useful information from it. Unsched ops in odd, exotic, hostile, and combat environments with no support is my backgroud, so please don't try to downplay my experience.

Here's the truth, the problem at Southern isn't safety, it's support. I'm not dealing with safety issues (if one comes up, the plane gets parked). I'm dealing with issues related to flying into the places we fly. New destinations, in different countries, on unfamiliar routes, without on-site personnel...

But guess what, that's my job.

Support is part of safety.

As a professional pilot that is exactly your job to plan ahead (airport study, route study, make phone calls ahead of time, coordinate, etc) when you go to new places, but I guess you know that with your "wealth" of ACMI ops. If your company is not providing you the means to do some of these things or the proper support then that is UNSAT. No sugarcoat, no weaseling around it, no excuses. Like I stated earlier a well runned outfit provides it's employers with the tools after that the employer provides his/her techinical expertise.

My original post was only meant to clarify Dutch's posts about flying planes that have MEL's that aren't being corrected. The second part of my original post was me getting on my soap box, but it was just a reminder to ALL pilots. It was NOT a slap to SA pilots. Everyone needs reminders and I love it when other professional pilots give me reminders or advice, so Dakota you can take my reminder or you can get on flight info and call me childish names. Whatever you think makes you safer at your job.

On a less serious note I think everyone on flight info wants to know the answer to this question.
Dakota were you picked on as a Kid?

Merry Christmas

 

[Clacker]

I'm getting real tired of you Cargo 360 guys taking your fustrations out on Southern. You need to get over what happened to your company, and get a clue.

Thanks

I just wanted to add something here. I'm a C360 guy who chose not to go over to Southern because I have recall rights to a major, and it looked like a good time to return. I don't have a dog in this fight. But I gotta say that I know all of the C360 pilots who actually went to Southern, and they're good people. They aren't angling for a fight or venting frustrations; they just want to do their jobs well and then go home. You'll like them, and I expect that they'll like working with you too, if you give them a chance.

Merry Christmas and good luck to all of you.

 

[southernpilot]

Sh...t for brains

If this accident happened due to a maintenance issue, then why would this blemish his record? I guess it could be a pain in the @ss to have to explain it. Even if it was his fault, it wouldn't necessarily preclude him from employment at major airlines.

I know a guy that ran an airplane off the end of a wet runway with a known tailwind and he was hired at UPS.

I know of a guy that did the same thing with a Westwind at Brenham, Texas. Had another six airplane crashes to his record and he has been at Continental Airlines now for years.
SP

 

[dakotaHC8]

Unsched ops in odd, exotic, hostile, and combat environments with no support is my backgroud, so please don't try to downplay my experience.

Here's the truth, the problem at Southern isn't safety, it's support. I'm not dealing with safety issues (if one comes up, the plane gets parked). I'm dealing with issues related to flying into the places we fly. New destinations, in different countries, on unfamiliar routes, without on-site personnel...

But guess what, that's my job.

Support is part of safety.

As a professional pilot that is exactly your job to plan ahead (airport study, route study, make phone calls ahead of time, coordinate, etc) when you go to new places, but I guess you know that with your "wealth" of ACMI ops. If your company is not providing you the means to do some of these things or the proper support then that is UNSAT. No sugarcoat, no weaseling around it, no excuses. Like I stated earlier a well runned outfit provides it's employers with the tools after that the employer provides his/her techinical expertise.

Fact is, that you came from a Air Force AMC background, and then moved into a civilian operation that only flew a handful of aircraft from the lower 48 to ANC, and then onto INC for one customer.

So you really don't have a good grasp of what the ACMI world is about... Only enough to make you think you do.

You need to understand that what you did in the Air Force (with the taxpayers paying for everything), or what you experienced with a small start-up company (that flew to one of the easist places in Asia to operate), does not give you the right to lecture anyone about the level of captain authority, safety practices, or operational procedures of an style of operation that you know little about.

I guess we come from different backgrounds, where having been at five airlines, through three bankruptcies, and survived three furloughs (including the last from a Major)... I tend to have less of a need for TLC than you seem to demand.

That's fine, as there is a job out there for everyone, and many outfits will provide just the kind of stable, easy, and comfortable existence than you obviously prefer... While other places, like Southern, will change daily, test your patience, and challenge you on a variety of levels everytime you come on duty. I could bid our Korean or domestic lines if I wanted to, but I find those trips kinda boring.

And that's "ok", because much like your choice to walk into your local Air Force Recruitment Office, (when I chose the USMC recruitment office instead) many years ago... It is a matter of personal preference as to what kind of place you work at.

You chose to work for Cargo 360. You were given the chance to work for Southern, and decided against it, you moved on to work elsewhere... It's all good.

But when you, or anyone else makes a direct, or indirect assertion that Southern is unsafe, unprofessional, or dangerous without any proof that is unacceptable.

You don't know what happened in Cairo, and neither did Dutch. You had no more right to use this event to lecture anyone about captain's authority or safety, than to tie it in with global warming or the genocide in Darfur.

But you did.

Which came across as very insulting to those of us that work hard to keep Southern not just flying, but in a safe and professional manner.

This is not a sports forum, where you can smack talk all day without care. (BTW, the Steelers suck)... It is a vehicle to pass along information about aviation operations, that people use to form opinions of and about those places (and just as importantly the people that work there).

So yeah, Southern's not your cup of tea (nor many other pilot's). But that does not mean it is not for everyone... (much like your choosing the Chair Force over the Corps ).

But if all you have to say is based upon heresay, then don't bother (esp. if it is negative). If you still feel the need to lecture everyone upon safety and Captain Authority, or even global warming... Then feel free to start another thread elsewhere.

If you have something to add, feel free, but if all you want to do is subtract, then you are only doing more damage than good.


Nuff said.

 

[swordfish]

I know of a guy that did the same thing with a Westwind at Brenham, Texas. Had another six airplane crashes to his record and he has been at Continental Airlines now for years.

Yeah, Well I know a guy;

Operating a CRJ700
For a Scab Operation
with a plane full of passengers

Ran an airplane of the end of a runway and tried to flee the scene

After being captured, tested positive for marijuana, alcohol, and Cocain

Was hired as a street Captain for Fed EX on a 747-400 at fifteen years pay

Of course to begin as soon as his five year sentence is over.

 

[CX880]

What does at least 3000 tt in category 2 transport mean?

 

[cessnapilot]

Fact is, that you came from a Air Force AMC background, and then moved into a civilian operation that only flew a handful of aircraft from the lower 48 to ANC, and then onto INC for one customer.

So you really don't have a good grasp of what the ACMI world is about... Only enough to make you think you do.

You need to understand that what you did in the Air Force (with the taxpayers paying for everything), or what you experienced with a small start-up company (that flew to one of the easist places in Asia to operate), does not give you the right to lecture anyone about the level of captain authority, safety practices, or operational procedures of an style of operation that you know little about.

I guess we come from different backgrounds, where having been at five airlines, through three bankruptcies, and survived three furloughs (including the last from a Major)... I tend to have less of a need for TLC than you seem to demand.

That's fine, as there is a job out there for everyone, and many outfits will provide just the kind of stable, easy, and comfortable existence than you obviously prefer... While other places, like Southern, will change daily, test your patience, and challenge you on a variety of levels everytime you come on duty. I could bid our Korean or domestic lines if I wanted to, but I find those trips kinda boring.

And that's "ok", because much like your choice to walk into your local Air Force Recruitment Office, (when I chose the USMC recruitment office instead) many years ago... It is a matter of personal preference as to what kind of place you work at.

You chose to work for Cargo 360. You were given the chance to work for Southern, and decided against it, you moved on to work elsewhere... It's all good.

But when you, or anyone else makes a direct, or indirect assertion that Southern is unsafe, unprofessional, or dangerous without any proof that is unacceptable.

You don't know what happened in Cairo, and neither did Dutch. You had no more right to use this event to lecture anyone about captain's authority or safety, than to tie it in with global warming or the genocide in Darfur.

But you did.

Which came across as very insulting to those of us that work hard to keep Southern not just flying, but in a safe and professional manner.

This is not a sports forum, where you can smack talk all day without care. (BTW, the Steelers suck)... It is a vehicle to pass along information about aviation operations, that people use to form opinions of and about those places (and just as importantly the people that work there).

So yeah, Southern's not your cup of tea (nor many other pilot's). But that does not mean it is not for everyone... (much like your choosing the Chair Force over the Corps ).

But if all you have to say is based upon heresay, then don't bother (esp. if it is negative). If you still feel the need to lecture everyone upon safety and Captain Authority, or even global warming... Then feel free to start another thread elsewhere.

If you have something to add, feel free, but if all you want to do is subtract, then you are only doing more damage than good.


Nuff said.

I like your post, but from what I've heard, there is little support at southern. I think think the pilots are great, as we are everywhere!

last ques... why USMC?

 

[Gumby]

Oh....

It wan't Eric L. over in Cairo was it?