Some serious venting about Jumpseating!

[trigeek]

As far as the FAA goes, they travel for personal pleasure all the time. The majority of FAA line checks I've experienced is by an inspector going to visit someone. All they have to do is fill out a form to justify their being there on that jumpseat. The flip side of that is I would rather get a line check from one of those individuals (normally in a good mood and looking forward to their trip) than someone like the loser who jumped us at 0530 out of Portland, ME on Mother's Day! Talk about a guy with issues...he was going out for the day to give checkrides.

 

[starchkr]

Ok, so what about the 135 guys?

Should we be included in this open jumpseat idea?

I am sure most of you would say no, but why?

 

[XJAVRO]

As long as the 135 guys are on our jumpseat list at Mesaba we take unlimited. Airnet is on the list, so if you guys need to go anywhere and there are open seats pile in.

 

[Caveman]

I have no beef with the freight guys personally but I think it's time we stopped letting them JS until they open up their JS. I know, I know .....it's the feds. However, I'm betting that when FedEx and UPS suddenly can't complete flights because the pilots can't get to work these companies could bring a lot of political pressure to bear on the folks that could get the JS back open again. Same goes for the rest of the Fortune 500 companies whose financial lives depend on freight. Good, bad or otherwise big money is the best way to get a little political pork served up.

 

[niteflyr]

So, what is your point?

You say you know it is the Feds that won't open up the freighter jumpseats, but you still think they should be banned from jumpseating? I don't get it. Actually FedEx and UPS mainly jump on thier own airplanes, they actually have a better network to get around on than most airlines. Things will change, it always does and there is no need for the PAXers to shoot themselves in the foot when this is all settled. As a former freight pilot I carried MANY pilots from the majors to get to and from work in the late night and morning hours and was glad to do it. I think ALPA and the others realize this and have been great to let the freighters keep riding. This all reminds me why I quit commuting, I don't envy anyone who has to Jumpseat.

 

[Freight Dog]

Ok, so what about the 135 guys?

Should we be included in this open jumpseat idea?

I am sure most of you would say no, but why?

I think we should allow 135 guys in the jumpseats, but they should be able to reciprocate. In other words, if I want to go to Podunk, New Mexico, I should be able to hop on a Cessna 402 with a load of freight in the back and get a ride there.

When I was at Ameriflight, I gave rides to quite a few SWA pilots out of OAK in Lances and Chieftains. There's nothing wrong with that. But it should be just that... be able to reciprocate and Ameriflight is more than able to reciprocate. My first 135 job - air tour company.. should not be held to a different standard - they should be able to reciprocate with a free air tour space-available if they intend to use my jumpseat. Finally, Part 135 companies should also adhere to the jumpseat protocol and not utilize jumpseat to reposition crews which was the case with many 135 operators, which is why many airlines booted them off their lists.

All of that should be done in writing and reciprocal agreements put in place.

Finally, if they intend to utilize the cockpit jumpseat and not a seat in the back, they need to be subject to the same set of rules as 121 pilots - telephone verification of employment.

I come from a Part 135 background, and I want to see those guys back in jumpseats, but at the same time, I dont want their employers raping our airline by requiring their pilots to abuse their privilege to save company money to reposition crews.

 

[CA1900]

I think we should allow 135 guys in the jumpseats, but they should be able to reciprocate.

I come from a Part 135 background, and I want to see those guys back in jumpseats, but at the same time, I dont want their employers raping our airline by requiring their pilots to abuse their privilege to save company money to reposition crews.

I couldn't have said it better myself, and that's a big reason I'm not too keen on fractional guys jumping on our airline. Our company says Exec Jet is OK because they have a 135 certificate, but they really can't reciprocate. Unless there's a central 800 number I can call to check THEIR empty-leg schedules to plan my trip, the ability to ride on their empty planes is meaningless.

They're generally good guys (many came from our own airline) and I appreciate it when they buy tickets on us, but that was a big part of the benefit package they knew they were going to lose when they left the airline side of things. Jumpseat agreements are one of the few real perks of airline life, and I don't think it's one we should extend to just anyone. Being able to reciprocally jumpseat on them is kinda the whole point.

 

[starchkr]

Ok, your answers were well taken, now what if i tell you that "prior" 9/11 Airnet had an OPEN JUMPSEAT agreement with ANY pilot working for a 135 or 121 company. Even with this liberal policy, we were still not allowed on many carriers, yet we technically "reciprocated" to every one.

Here is my question... If Airnet was to again inlist an OPEN JUMPSEAT agreement with any 135 or 121 pilot, would you be willing to do the same to us? Now realize, it is the pilots that take their requests directly to the JSC in their company, now would you be willing to take us to them on our offer of reciprocating?

Just to clear some things up, currently we do not offer an open agreement because of 9/11, and we can only allow reciprocal airlines to ride, of which we currently have something like 30. We are in the process of trying to re-open our list to EVERYONE.

As far as using jumpseats to repo crews, i know we do not do this. The two times i have had to repo due to mechanical problems they purchased an airline ticket for me. They do this for all crew movements which are required and that we cannot put on our own aircraft. I hope that makes some of you feel better.

Also, i completely agree that we should all comply with the same security measures for riding in the jumpseat. There should be no difference in 135 or 121, just a pilot who would appreciate a ride.

 

[Freight Dog]

Not only is AirNet still in ALPA jumpseat registry, but it's a model for all 135 carriers. Of course I'd want Airnet added to any jumpseat list. It's too bad we can't carry any 135 jumpseaters yet. Restoring Part 135 jumpseating should be next priority after getting back into cockpit jumpseat.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Get Real!

I have no beef with the freight guys personally but I think it's time we stopped letting them JS until they open up their JS. I know, I know .....it's the feds. However, I'm betting that when FedEx and UPS suddenly can't complete flights because the pilots can't get to work these companies could bring a lot of political pressure to bear on the folks that could get the JS back open again.

"Caveman"

FedEx is working with the FAA to re-open off-line jumpseaters - period. Most 121 carriers enjoy the SAME FedEx shipping privledges that FedEx pilots currently receive - THAT should hold you over until we get the jumpseats open. I have had only ONE commuter pilot ever jumpseat with me - not a major - a simple commuter dude visiting mom and dad (before 9-11). I know we are "generally" the LAST resort anyone wants to use getting to/from somewhere.

Your ridiculous proposal to restrict jumpseats will backfire. FedEx pilots {right now} have little to no control YET over allowing off-line jumpseaters onboard dude - get a clue! You don't realize most of the time we DH with paid tickets - yeah, filling YOUR otherwise empty seats so YOU can get a paycheck! FedEx doesn't plan or schedule us to make ANY trip simply by walking up and ASKING for a jumpseat - do your homework next time! ANY Capt refusing me a jumpseat (because of idiotic reasons like yours) will NEVER get my 27+ years of future business again.....plenty of other ways to get to work......

I don't know what "management pawn" has been putting these crew-dividing ideas in your mind - but try THINKING about your actions next time.

Speed

 

[flight-crew]

I don't think that we should be denying FedEx or UPS guys. But I do think that both pilot groups need to be putting some serious pressure from their Unions on to management and the FAA. A few months would be understandable, but it's been over 7 months since 9/11.

Has anyone heard the timeline for FedEx and UPS to restore offline jumpseating?

And what's the status with Airborne Express?

 

[NEDude]

I think ALPA, and all pilots who have commuting clauses in their contracts, should organize a national "can't find a jumpseat" day to protest the increased difficulty of jumpseating. Imagine if 30-40% of flights around the nation were cancelled because pilots could not get to work. I'd bet a day or two of that would open the jumpseats back up immediately. What does everyone say?

 

[Caveman]

SpeedRacer,

It's called thinking outside of the box. It wasn't a serious proposal. It was supposed to generate some thought and debate, not personal insults. But if that's the best you can do....

The point wasn't we can't ride on you so you can't ride on us. FedEx, UPS, et al have not been able to get their JS open. Maybe it's time to take a little drastic action to help the process along. I was trying to offer an alternative way to open the JS for everyone.

Yeah, I get discounted shipping from FedEx and I'm grateful for it. So what. They also get ID90's from us. Last time I checked you can't buy an ID90 for FedEx or UPS.

 

[SpeedRacer]

So What?

"Caveman"

Why are FedEx jumpseats so darn important to you all of a sudden? I'm not lobbing personal insults at anyone - BUT if a knucklehead (that's means YOU) starts throwing around ideas about denying jumpseats to freight guys to "kickstart" some far-fetched grassroots effort to force the FAA into action - well then you're fooling yourself.

But I forgot - you're trying to spark some interesting debate!! Yes, well done good man!! I've got a debate then = be happy FedEx Deadheads a majority of their crews on a daily basis on majors (and commuters like you) to AND from our trips. That keeps money flowing to your company and YOU employed.

Finally, the day we start offering ID90's is the day you start flying Indy racecars or even Arabian horses in your twin-prop commuter. You sure you even fly airplanes and you're not some junior in high school? I forgot, you're the confused Marine "PFC" wannabe - that's the ticket!! Not an insult, just an
observation..............don't want to hurt your feelings or anything like that....geez...

 

[Caveman]

Speedracer,

Once again the best you seem to be able to do is insult me personally instead of offering critical and insightful comment. Why is it that when people disagree on ideas too many of us resort to name calling (knucklehead), lame-assed attempts at discrediting the opposition (junior high school student), and guilt by association (management pawn).

I don't particular care about the FedEx JS, but this thread was discussing JS availability or lack thereof. I'll make sure I check with you next time I have a comment on the topic at hand.

My credentials or lack of shouldn't have anything to do with a valid discussion about ideas. My opinion and ideas have as much weight and validity as yours even though we may disagree. Same goes for a junior high school student as long as they engage in debate and not invective. Just to set the record straight since it seems to be a bone of contention with you I served 20+ years in the Marine Corps. It's a good thing I'm not a turboprop commuter pilot or I'd really be insulted.

Using your own text with a few edits here is a suggested way to civilly disagree.

"Caveman

That was an interesting and unconventional idea you had about the FedEx JS. I'm not sure that it will work and I have serious concerns that some airline might actually try to make it happen. I believe that all it will do is make life difficult for freight pilots and not actually achieve anything.

A better way to get the FedEx JS opened up might be ....(fill in your own idea here)....

Even though us freight guys can't reciprocate right now we can still offer you discounted shipping. We are working hard to get the JS back. Like I said, it was an interesting idea but I think it's a little too drastic and I don't think it will work.

Speed"