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Some serious venting about Jumpseating!

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flight-crew

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Posts
167
I'm about to do some serious venting and I hope to get some good replies on what you think about this whole issue.

Ever since 9/11, the whole jumpseating deal has really been screwed up and ruined. Here's where we are at:

FedEx, UPS, and most of the other cargo carriers - NO JUMPSEATING ALLOWED WHATSOEVER by offline pilots.

All other majors - No cockpit jumpseating allowed.

The airline that you work for (or major associated with your regional) - You can cockpit jumpseat, and some require employment verification via telephone.


Now I'm going to ask a serious question which probably represents the biggest double standard out there! What does the FAA need to ride on the cockpit jumpseat? Their FAA I.D. and an FAA piece of paper authorizing them to jumpseat. That's it. Yet for most of us to jumpseat, we present our company I.D., our airmen certificate, our medical certificate, have our employment verified by telephone, and sometimes also present our drivers license and passport. That's 5 forms of I.D., plus a telephone call to verify employment! How do we know that the FAA guy isn't some terrorist who made up a fake FAA I.D. and jumpseat authorization paper. If the FAA is going to be cockpit jumpseating then we should be allowed to on ALL AIRLINES.

This has serverly affected the lives of thousands and thousands of pilots. To this day I can't believe that ALPA hasn't taken a stronger stance on this. I personally don't think we should have returned to work until this whole jumpseat thing was worked out, or at least some hard deadline was set. If they want to set up some type of national verification center then fine, but lets not take 10 years to do it! I'm not sure if all of these new jumpseating policies and procedures are FAA, Company, or a little bit of both, but it needs to be dealt with immediately. I'm tired of the procrastination and delays. This could go on for years.

One last point that I would like to make. I would hope that someday every airline would allow unlimited jumpseaters. To the ones that already do today, kudos to them. It just kills me to see a plane full of empty seats leave the gate with 3 or 4 jumpseaters who couldn't get on because the airline would only allow one jumpseater. The seats are empty anyway, so what difference does it make.

I think the best thing that we can do at this point is to write ALPA and let them know that we are serious about restoring cockpit jumpseating. This current system is completely unacceptable.
 
Actually, I think ALPA has done pretty good getting things restored to where they are today. I commute to work. It's always atleast two legs. Yes, it takes me some more time to call and see if the planes full and I even had to buy a few ID-90's but atleast we still have the privilage. I know it's not what it used to be, but I do have faith that it will be back to norm hopefully soon. Yes, its harder to get home, but it can be done with some planning the night before. If the airpliens and the FEDs go ahead with this universal pilot ID, I think things will go back to normal. Keep your fingers crossed.


As far as FedEx and UPS go. It's not the companys fault. It's the FAA's fault. You can read the letter on the ALPA website that the cargo guys sent to all the airlines.

Your comment about not returning to work till the full jiumpseat is restored. Dude, I can smell what your smoking from here. Be serious.
 
According to our POI at our FSDO, (he) FAA can't jumpseat just for personal/pleasure travel. They have to be on "company" business (i.e. giving a line check or some other official reason they are there). Otherwise they (FAA) pays a goverment fare. This may not apply to all FAA positions and titles, but know the requirements, ask questions, and don't let them abuse their position or yours.
 
ALPA started asking the FAA for universal IDs in 1989. FAA/DOT action to date? . . . . well, I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
Awhile back, I read on ALPA's message boards that some captains were denying FAA a jumpseat by stating they could not verify their credentials.

Talk about cajones... and I can't blame these guys...
 
Unlimited jumpseating on the majors (because they are more closely watched) was snuffed out by the IRS years ago. Our friends at the treasury department considered it improper for an infinite amount of people to travel at will without paying any sort of taxes. I'm serious about this. They felt that jumpseating had become a free-for-all and that it was being abused by the airlines and the pilots. Hence, one jump-seater per jump-seat - more or less. This is slowly going away as the IRS has moved on to bigger and better battles worth much more money so good times may come again. I think reciprocal agreements are out-dated too. If the person has a legit 121 badge, the right credentials, a union card, and the seat is available why do we have to have an agreement in writing??????? Can't we consider our seats open to everyone? Especially amongst ALPA carriers; we all pay dues to the same organization for the same privelages!!!!!!
 
don't open that can of worms

sydeseet said:
Especially amongst ALPA carriers; we all pay dues to the same organization for the same privelages!!!!!!

Man don't open that can of worms here, or we'll end up with another defense coalition. :)

Seriously, great point about the IRS. My carrier allows unlimited jumpseaters, but the go on a non-rev pass if there is more than one.
regards
8N
 
I don't know why the IRS would care about how many seats an airline wishes to give away for free. How could they tax something that is not paid for? Perhaps they need to come up with a travel tax, so that when you drive across any state border, you pay a fee. Oops, don't want to give them any ideas.

About the reciprocal agreement question, well, if you work for a regional, many majors wouldn't for a long time let any of them ride. The reason we have reciprocals is because some airlines are very stingy on their approved list, and if you didn't have an agreement, you didn't go. So, to help them allow you on their airline, you had to restrict them from yours until they agreed. This happened a long time ago, so many of you probably don't remember.

As for the snide remark about another defense coalition, I guess you can make fun of people who try to make things better for everyone by fighting for our rights. I suppose you make fun of people like George Washington and Susan B. Anthony too, don't you?
 
PS,
The original point on letting the FAA ride without any more posative ID than the average pilot has is well taken. Of course, they run the show, so what can we do? Now you have given some terrorist a good idea too. Perhaps you should have kept this private. Oh well.
 
Lighten up

skydiverdriver said:


As for the snide remark about another defense coalition, I guess you can make fun of people who try to make things better for everyone by fighting for our rights. I suppose you make fun of people like George Washington and Susan B. Anthony too, don't you?

SDD

You must be a real joy to have to spend time with. I feel for poor slobs you get paired with.

It was a Funny, a lighthearted remark. Grow up.

8N

PS, if you don't know why the IRS casts a dubious eye toward things that are "free", you are either ignorant or inexperienced in the world of business.
 

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