Some Fool at Flex

[CA1900]

that's 35buck that I can put to better use than paying someone else to find ways to make my life worse.

Let's see.. I've been here for about a year and a half, and in that time, first-year pay has gone up 46%, 95 new crew bases have opened up (saving me over $1500 each year just in gas), crew food has gotten much better, and so on...

Yeah, man... you're right. What a rip-off.

 

[haulingthemail]

Let's see.. I've been here for about a year and a half, and in that time, first-year pay has gone up 46%, 95 new crew bases have opened up (saving me over $1500 each year just in gas), crew food has gotten much better, and so on...

Yeah, man... you're right. What a rip-off.

well lets see, the 1,500 in gas you wouldn't have to spend had you lived where you were suppose to when you took the job. But you are probably one of those that took the job, didn't live where you were based and knew this when you accepted the position, and then bitched about it once you were on property. Crew food, so what, that's not a given in any other job. That's what your per diem is suppose to be for. But use it how you so see fit. The next time you see your IBT 1108 Lawyers ask them if they get "lawyer food" or if they have to buy their own lunch. That's right they buy their own lunch with your $35 a month and everyone elses.
Pay, you knew of the pay scale when you took the job, if it wasn't a problem then, then why did you start complaining after you took the job. Want to make more money, go be one of those IBT lawyers, or a doctor.

 

[haulingthemail]

Let's see.. I've been here for about a year and a half, and in that time, first-year pay has gone up 46%, 95 new crew bases have opened up (saving me over $1500 each year just in gas), crew food has gotten much better, and so on...

Yeah, man... you're right. What a rip-off.

besides if your a/c types are correct you are just a stones throw away from SWA right? Or did they turn you down so now you are bitter?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

wow you are so closed minded and misinformed...

i dont know of many FBO's with a Mcdonalds next door, and I cant carry 7 days of lunches with me.

and as far as bases go, have you ever heard of life changing? maybe some guy's mom died and he wants to move back somewhere to be close to his dad. Priorities change over the years man, would be nice to have that option to relocate.

 

[CA1900]

well lets see, the 1,500 in gas you wouldn't have to spend had you lived where you were suppose to when you took the job.

:laugh:

You really think it's a company's place to tell me where I'm "supposed to live"?

Wow. Just... wow.

But you are probably one of those that took the job, didn't live where you were based and knew this when you accepted the position, and then bitched about it once you were on property.

Nope; never bitched once about it. I'm glad we were able to work to improve it, because it directly affects my quality of life and gives me the opportunity to live all over the country, instead of just a few high-cost areas.

Crew food, so what, that's not a given in any other job. That's what your per diem is suppose to be for.

That's a great idea. Could you show me to the FBO's restaurant? How exactly do you propose I eat while I'm at work?

If you're content to eat pizza delivery or garbage out of vending machines until you're done for the day, more power to you. I'd rather have nutritious food when I'm at work.

Pay, you knew of the pay scale when you took the job, if it wasn't a problem then, then why did you start complaining after you took the job.

Again, you make assumptions with no basis in fact. Never once have I complained about our salaries. That doesn't mean we shouldn't work to make them better, and that's exactly what happened.

Want to make more money, go be one of those IBT lawyers, or a doctor.

Or be a pilot who negotiates with his management for better pay and benefits, versus one who takes whatever handout is offered.

...so now you are bitter?

:laugh: Bitter? Nope. As happy as I've ever been with a job and with a company.

 

[Flex-ible]

I was not at Flex when they laid folks off. I can not imagine them just randomly laying folks off out of seniority order. There must of been other circumstances.

Perhaps flying skill and customer service attitudes were considered? In my experience, unions provide job security for the mediocre employees.

 

[theskyking]

well lets see, the 1,500 in gas you wouldn't have to spend had you lived where you were suppose to when you took the job. But you are probably one of those that took the job, didn't live where you were based and knew this when you accepted the position, and then bitched about it once you were on property. Crew food, so what, that's not a given in any other job. That's what your per diem is suppose to be for. But use it how you so see fit. The next time you see your IBT 1108 Lawyers ask them if they get "lawyer food" or if they have to buy their own lunch. That's right they buy their own lunch with your $35 a month and everyone elses.
Pay, you knew of the pay scale when you took the job, if it wasn't a problem then, then why did you start complaining after you took the job. Want to make more money, go be one of those IBT lawyers, or a doctor.

Couldn't help but laugh when I read your post. CA1900 is one of the most laid-back, content people I know. For you to make the assumptions you made is just laughable.

Life is all about choices. If you choose to work somewhere without representation, then more power to you.

Me and about 2800 other NJA pilots choose not to. My monetary investment in my union continuously improves my quality of life. It's money I am only too happy to spend. If that money also provides a good quality of life for those who represent me, then that's great. I know my hard work helps provide a good life for the leaders in charge of my company.

I hope you find what you are looking for. I know I did.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Perhaps flying skill and customer service attitudes were considered? In my experience, unions provide job security for the mediocre employees.

a union provides job security for all employees

 

[John MClain]

well lets see, the 1,500 in gas you wouldn't have to spend had you lived where you were suppose to when you took the job. But you are probably one of those that took the job, didn't live where you were based and knew this when you accepted the position, and then bitched about it once you were on property. Crew food, so what, that's not a given in any other job. That's what your per diem is suppose to be for. But use it how you so see fit. The next time you see your IBT 1108 Lawyers ask them if they get "lawyer food" or if they have to buy their own lunch. That's right they buy their own lunch with your $35 a month and everyone elses.
Pay, you knew of the pay scale when you took the job, if it wasn't a problem then, then why did you start complaining after you took the job. Want to make more money, go be one of those IBT lawyers, or a doctor.

Hey Mr. Haulingthemail, if anyone sounds bitter it is you. This response from you almost defies belief. How someone can be so out of touch with reality is simply amazing, but then all one has to do is a search of your posting history to understand why you are the way you are.

You are simply a disgruntled ex ATI pilot who feels he has found the brass ring by landing a cushy CL300 position a Flexjet. The union that represented you at ATI somehow screwed you and now all unions are bad. Your close mindedness and overall attitude towards anyone who truly wants things to change for the better at Flexjet is the exact reason why they never will change. Flexjet will never really be any better than it is right now because of people like you. Is Flexjet even in your long term career plans? I doubt it, you seem to be someone who feels the need to fly airplanes as big as your ego and Flexjet does'nt have any A380's on order.

Enjoy your new proposed pay raise (union derived), keep on drinking that good ol Flexjet Koolaid and stop trying to paint everyone with your one color all unions are bad dried out paint brush.

 

[johnsonrod]

Perhaps flying skill and customer service attitudes were considered? In my experience, unions provide job security for the mediocre employees.

Your lack of union provided you with a substandard deal. Sure, you got a raise (thanks to the high bar set by Netjets) and some improvement in schedules. Your domicile policy is now the worst in the fractional industry. Even FLOPS has a better policy. Congrats on that.

Flex has a long way to go before it becomes the number one choice among applicants. I wouldn't feel so proud of yourself just yet.

 

[Iam3rd]

Hey Mr. Haulingthemail, if anyone sounds bitter it is you. This response from you almost defies belief. How someone can be so out of touch with reality is simply amazing, but then all one has to do is a search of your posting history to understand why you are the way you are.

You are simply a disgruntled ex ATI pilot who feels he has found the brass ring by landing a cushy CL300 position a Flexjet. The union that represented you at ATI somehow screwed you and now all unions are bad. Your close mindedness and overall attitude towards anyone who truly wants things to change for the better at Flexjet is the exact reason why they never will change. Flexjet will never really be any better than it is right now because of people like you. Is Flexjet even in your long term career plans? I doubt it, you seem to be someone who feels the need to fly airplanes as big as your ego and Flexjet does'nt have any A380's on order.

Enjoy your new proposed pay raise (union derived), keep on drinking that good ol Flexjet Koolaid and stop trying to paint everyone with your one color all unions are bad dried out paint brush.

You make it sound as though it is very rare to find someone who has had a bad experience with the union. I know that the union can do some good things. But to be honest, I have met more pilots that have had bad experiences with the unions, than ones that have had good.

 

[haulingthemail]

You make it sound as though it is very rare to find someone who has had a bad experience with the union. I know that the union can do some good things. But to be honest, I have met more pilots that have had bad experiences with the unions, than ones that have had good.

yes sir, amen

And for MR. MClain, every job that I left was because of the WONDERFUL things that UNIONS do for it's pilots. For the TOP group of pilots, piss on the young and upcoming, they can go elsewhere. Unions by no means are fair. I'd rather take my chances with non union companies than with a company that has a UNION. But that's me. YOu can have your union.
In response to you thinking that I want to fly the "BIG" ones, be there done that, it's just an airplane.
Money the last time I check doesn't buy happiness, it makes you greedy. I'll take what bones are thrown my way and say thank-you. It sure as hell beat digging ditches for a living. Be greatful for what you have is what I was always taught. That's the difference in mine and your up bringing.

 

[walshsfly]

Why is it that pilots think they should be able to live in whatever podunk little waste of space place they want. If you worked in any other industry out there they tell you where to live and you either like it or you don't work for them. Why are most pilots such whiny little bastards. Think about it before you respond, then go ask your neighbor who isn't a pilot if he could work for his current company out of his current office but live on the other side of the country, and have his company be responsible for him getting back and forth to work. You all took a job with a company that isn't where you live deal with it, you made that decision.

 

[haulingthemail]

Why is it that pilots think they should be able to live in whatever podunk little waste of space place they want. If you worked in any other industry out there they tell you where to live and you either like it or you don't work for them. Why are most pilots such whiny little bastards. Think about it before you respond, then go ask your neighbor who isn't a pilot if he could work for his current company out of his current office but live on the other side of the country, and have his company be responsible for him getting back and forth to work. You all took a job with a company that isn't where you live deal with it, you made that decision.

AMEN!
Walsh, don't leave out being provide with free food, granted it may not always be the best but is is free.
Your neighbors would think all the ones that are complaining about everything you mentioned were crazy.

 

[CA1900]

...every job that I left was because of the WONDERFUL things that UNIONS do for it's pilots. For the TOP group of pilots, piss on the young and upcoming, they can go elsewhere...

And that, right there, shows you how little you understand about how 1108 works. Our contract and our leadership's methods are living proof of a system that isn't stacked to favor only the senior pilots on the backs of the most junior.

Look at our current contract versus the one that preceded it. First-year pilots got a wage increase of ~46%. 14-year G200 captains, just to pick an example of a senior pilot, got about a 13% raise. We've worked to eliminate the extreme top-heavy wage scales, and make them much more linear as your career progresses.

The biggest complaint you'll hear about 1108 is that it does too much for the junior, and not enough for the very senior. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what you said above.

I'd rather take my chances with non union companies than with a company that has a UNION. But that's me. YOu can have your union.

And that's certainly your choice. Having worked for both types of companies, you can have your non-union carrier.

My quality of life is dramatically better with a union carrier, because our fellow pilot volunteers are watching out for us. Just to name a few things, they make sure we stay in quality hotels, that we eat well on the road, and that we can get extra rest if we're too tired for a min turn. They've made huge strides in making sure our training is consistent and fair. And so on.

You'd rather go it on your own. That's fine. I'd rather go it as a team with my fellow pilots. I like it better.


And yeah, it sure beats digging ditches. :beer:

 

[Inigo Montoya]

If you worked in any other industry out there they tell you where to live and you either like it or you don't work for them.

Good lord walsh.. maybe I'm a manager at some chain like walmart and I want to transfer to seattle. maybe I am a ramper for UAL and I want to move to vegas.

plenty of other business offer job transfer options. the point is, it should be easy for flex to do it since they airline us to work. Why not airline me out of houston instead of dallas?

 

[Club ORD FO]

\ You all took a job with a company that isn't where you live deal with it, you made that decision.

the "if you dont like it then leave" attitude doesn't work in this industry. If my seniority would transfer over to NJ, united, Fedex, then i'd go. But i have to start at the bottom no matter how much experience I have. That means I am now taking a pay cut to go anywhere. Golden Handcuffs.

I'm better off staying here and working towards improvements then going to the bottom of the list somewhere else. being junior sucks and puts me at risk of being furloughed if there is a downturn in the indusrty.

 

[johnsonrod]

the "if you dont like it then leave" attitude doesn't work in this industry. If my seniority would transfer over to NJ, united, Fedex, then i'd go. But i have to start at the bottom no matter how much experience I have. That means I am now taking a pay cut to go anywhere. Golden Handcuffs.

I'm better off staying here and working towards improvements then going to the bottom of the list somewhere else. being junior sucks and puts me at risk of being furloughed if there is a downturn in the indusrty.

Go to Netjets - you'll be junior there too and the conditions are better. It's easier to move somewhere else when you are junior.

 

[learflyer]

Why is it that pilots think they should be able to live in whatever podunk little waste of space place they want. If you worked in any other industry out there they tell you where to live and you either like it or you don't work for them. Why are most pilots such whiny little bastards. Think about it before you respond, then go ask your neighbor who isn't a pilot if he could work for his current company out of his current office but live on the other side of the country, and have his company be responsible for him getting back and forth to work. You all took a job with a company that isn't where you live deal with it, you made that decision.

that's a good post!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

I know this guy who wants to be a deep-sea fisherman living in Wichita. He sounds like these whiney little NJ guys.

 

[skydan5]

There is a big picture.

CL,

you knew i was gonna chime in.

Yes, Flexjet DID take away pay, 2001-2003 there was a pay freeze and that is the same thing my friend.

along with the pay freeze, people were fired out of senority, and sales bonuses to the pilots were removed.

Above is the same story i have been telling you for a year now, for some reason you dont wanna listen, and if they did it once, they CAN/WILL do it again if "needed" without a contract.

Those decisions were made by Bombardier Aerospace (the big boss) as a result of the slumping economy, slow new aircraft sales and billions of $ in trade-in aircraft that we took into inventory as a result of buy-back clauses that were signed in to the new aircraft contracts in previous years. Additionally, production slowed down with CRJ's and business aircraft. Thousands were laid off company-wide and all pay raises were frozen for those who were lucky to keep their job.

So.... Flexjet had to make cut backs as well, but not to the extent of the rest of Bombardier.

The raise in May that we were promised, we will get. Unless the US and the world has a catastrophic economic event in the next few months, Bombardier (third largest airplane maker) will not reneg on their promise.

 

[frac pilot]

CL,

you knew i was gonna chime in.

Yes, Flexjet DID take away pay, 2001-2003 there was a pay freeze and that is the same thing my friend.

along with the pay freeze, people were fired out of senority, and sales bonuses to the pilots were removed.

Above is the same story i have been telling you for a year now, for some reason you dont wanna listen, and if they did it once, they CAN/WILL do it again if "needed" without a contract.

Your facts are a little wrong:
Flexjet did not give raises that year but annual increases were not frozen (the range varied depending on years of service).

Pilots were fired out of seniority but most would agree they were a detriment to the company, you are correct though with regards to that statement.

Bonuses have never been removed, we just didn't reach the goal. Fact is, we haven't had a bonus based on sales since 1999. The new bonus program was designed because of this short coming.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I'll take what bones are thrown my way and say thank-you.

It's really sad you have so little self-worth.

 

[haulingthemail]

It's really sad you have so little self-worth.

You are wrong, I knew what the job was when I took it and had no problem with it then. Not like some of you on this post, where you take a job then bitch about it later. You accepted the job then and it was ok, if you didn't like what was offered then, then you should have said no thanks, and let someone else have it. But instead you took a position and now bitch and complain.

 

[theskyking]

You are wrong, I knew what the job was when I took it and had no problem with it then. Not like some of you on this post, where you take a job then bitch about it later. You accepted the job then and it was ok, if you didn't like what was offered then, then you should have said no thanks, and let someone else have it. But instead you took a position and now bitch and complain.

What an absurd post.

First of all, no job ends up being exactly what you thought it would be in the beginning. There are millions of things that happen daily that affect your QOL. How can you know about them all while you are on the outside looking in? It's when you get on the line and have had three 14 hour days with 10 hour turns that you finally start to comprehend what this job entails.

Secondly, we work in a very dynamic industry with countless outside forces dictating how we conduct business. The way the job was done yesterday many not be how the job needs to be done tomorrow.

So your stance on these issues is to let momma (company) make everything better. "I know she loves me, she just increased my allowance."

Here at NJ, the company and 1108 sit down at the table as peers striving for the same goal. Problems are handled and a path is set by both parties. Wow. What a concept? Sure there are plenty of examples of "Unions Gone Bad!" (you can find that in your local adult video store). But we are in a different kind of industry and we are a different kind of union. Stability and sustainability for the company while ensuring growth. Providing a positive work environment for the employees that promotes safety and excellence.

I'll take what I have and you can keep "Thank you, sir. May I have another?"(This statement was posted as an obvious exageration in response to one absurd post. All the other FJ guys, please disregard.)

 

[Inigo Montoya]

You are wrong, I knew what the job was when I took it and had no problem with it then.

SG is that you?

So then I guess you are going to decline the raise right?

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Montoya, you ever fly a Hawker?

 

[CL300Pilot]

Just out of curiosity, how many grievances do you guys have going at the moment? Just an estimate. The reason I ask is because of a couple of NJA guys saying that they had filed them based on not getting the proper amount of cookies in their meals. And no, I am not making this up. I know you guys have tools just like we do.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

The airlines have only given back when they had to and 99% of the time it was to protect pilots from being furloughed. The latest round with United/USAir/NWA had to give in because the airlines were in Bankruptcy court ( Which all of the had Pro Bussiness/Anti Labor). If the unions did not come to the table then Management could have forced the changes ( Hey alot like Flex) on the pilots. Let me tell you those contracts really sucked.
So by working out new contracts the pilots saved hundreds of jobs but had language that requires the airline to re-open negotiations once the airline hits certain economic thresholds and call all pilots back before they hire off the street(Flex does not have to hire you back)
Now lets talk about safety. Say you are landing at CHS and as you cross the threshold a C-5 powers up and you scrape a wing tip. Flex: Danger of being fired. Union Shop: Union protects your job. So yes the Union can provide alot of security that a non union shop can not.

Actually Mr. Bailey, It was a C-17 doing the run up.
Just bustin a Indy brothers stones. He is right though, send in the card. You can never have to many alternates or to many choices.

 

[bluepost]

There seems to be 5-10 grievances a week now....out of about 2800 pilots. The crew food grievances were from about a year ago before the company fixed the crew food program adding the regional menu to the base menu.

Not to turn this into another pro union tread but this is just one example of how the union works. The contract is exactly that..an agreement agreed to by BOTH sides laying down the rules. If either side breaks the rules there are policies to correct that.

In this case the crew food program was mediocre at best and was fixed because of the grievance process with union/member input and now it is great, for both sides.

Same with pager briefs, rental cars, hotel quality etc.