So where does the next generation come from???

[DH106]

I love all the Econ professors here that have totally forgot where our money comes from. We collectively bargain. We do NOT individually bargain. Our power comes through our unions- and yet a majority of us (growing smaller) vote for people who do not believe in unions and try to take away any leverage we have had. You want to find the cause of the race to the bottom? Check your politics, look in the mirror and ask if you really have supported your union.

Waveflyer, excellent point. You said it very well. And, I apologize for the thread creep, but I believe the Republican party despises labor and unions, and the Democratic party doesn't fight for labor or unions. I mean, really; labor is out there pi$$ing in the wind in this new era. There is no labor party in this nation.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Suppose you were all 64 years old. Would you really care where the next generation would come from?

All the folks here care about is how the future generation will affect THEM. They are looking for some validation that they didn't make a horrible career choice. Too bad, you did. Regardless of what the future pilots do or don't do, the likelyhood of the Golden Age of Aviation ever returning is ZERO.

Show me another industry where it has happened.

Forget about future improvements to the industry and work on present improvements to yourself and leave this lousy industry to reap what it has sown without you.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Waveflyer, excellent point. You said it very well. And, I apologize for the thread creep, but I believe the Republican party despises labor and unions, and the Democratic party doesn't fight for labor or unions. I mean, really; labor is out there pi$$ing in the wind in this new era. There is no labor party in this nation.

The Democratic Party gave the UAW Chrysler and GM. How's that workin' out for them?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Probably 1000's more U.S. citizens sitting in Dubai, Tokyo, and other foreign places that would love to come home to America and fly.

I can only speak for myself but I have no interest in going back and take such a dramatic pay cut

 

[Flopgut]

The Democratic Party gave the UAW Chrysler and GM. How's that workin' out for them?

I would gladly accept the same terms the UAW was given over what the ATSB was used to do to airline labor.

You want to know a good example of an industry that has clawed it's way back: Rail. That is who we need to attach ourlselves to. Do exactly what rail workers have done and we will either be out of the RLA, or have a more solid future under it.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I couldn't afford to go back to my carrier making less money than before my 6 year furlough.

Gotta thank Wolf, Seigel, Lakefield, Parker and Nicolau for making that choice the easiest one I have ever made.

 

[DH106]

The Democratic Party gave the UAW Chrysler and GM. How's that workin' out for them?

Bringupthebird, what you say may be true to an extent. But, GM and Chrysler failed not because of the unions. They ultimately failed due to bad management. Let's remember that those high-powered MBA's are the executives of the corporations... not labor. The buck stops with management.

 

[Flopgut]

Bringupthebird, what you say may be true to an extent. But, GM and Chrysler failed not because of the unions. They ultimately failed due to bad management. Let's remember that those high-powered MBA's are the executives of the corporations... not labor. The buck stops with management.

Amen. 2008, I believe, was the largest number of top safety pics ever handed out. Chrysler failed to put one madel of the list. That's mgt's fault.

 

[DH106]

Amen. 2008, I believe, was the largest number of top safety pics ever handed out. Chrysler failed to put one madel of the list. That's mgt's fault.

Sorry, I don't understand... what do you mean by pics (short for "pictures")? What's a madel? Not trying to be a smarta$$; I just don't understand what you're talking about.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The single biggest reason for the loss of pay and workrules is do to loss of revenue as a result of the Deregulation Act of 1978 signed by Jimmy Carter....

The second largest contibuting factor is ALPA and APA's selling of scope to prop up what was left of the pay and workrules for the senior mainline pilots who have since retired....

 

[Flopgut]

Sorry, I don't understand... what do you mean by pics (short for "pictures")? What's a madel? Not trying to be a smarta$$; I just don't understand what you're talking about.

Sorry, I was distracted. "Picks" as in safety industry recognition/awards, and "model" as is various production types/classes of autos. Nardelli's Chrysler designed cars for the UAW to build that not enough people wanted and that weren't honored as safe autos.

 

[T3700]

USAF pilot production in 1985 was right at 2000 pilots per year. In 1990 it was 1500. In 1995 it hit a historic low of 600. In 2000 it was up to around 1100. Latest data for 2008 shows that the USAF produced 925 pilots. The Air Force is short of pilots now and is trying to convince retired pilots to come back.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Sorry, I was distracted. "Picks" as in safety industry recognition/awards, and "model" as is various production types/classes of autos. Nardelli's Chrysler designed cars for the UAW to build that not enough people wanted and that weren't honored as safe autos.

Not even close. When you have to support retiree health care for a number equivalent of the entire population of Wyoming, you can't produce a quality product as a competitive price. Something has to give. UAW has found a friend in the White House who is willing to perpetuate the fantasy that it's still 1970 and that the UAW doesn't need to negotiate.

Why does the left love to talk about sustainability until it comes to the economy, then it clings to policies doomed to cause collateral damage when they inevitably fail.

Auto industry failing? Hand the keys to the folks whose contracts caused the problems.
Health Care in crisis? Slap together a product that causes far more problems than it solves.
Employment imploding? Focus all your efforts on destabilizing the economy so that no one will know whether or not to invest and grow because of the penaties for success.

Please would one of you right -seat lefties please give me an example of something that the left has done that qualifies as a success?

Change? How does repeating the failures of 80 years of liberalism equate to change?

 

[Dan Roman]

Thousands!? I would find it hard to believe there are even a total of one thousand [1000].

Age 65 is going to be a brick wall. I think a guy like Prater might try to pull some age waiver stunt that might help his own fat butt, however it aint going to work. If there are "thousands" of pilots abroad, when the need arises to hire here in the US I think the overseas jobs will be the first to pay more to keep the pilots.

What's great is, the old guys are just going to get old. That's it. For those of us who are younger and have solid experience there will be a rising tide the older boomers will be excluded from.

I got news for you dude, EVERYONE gets older (unless they are very unlucky), not just "old guys".

 

[Dan Roman]

If there is a pilot shortage, there are plenty of very well qualified Regional pilots to draw from for the Major Airlines. If the turnover becomes too excessive, it would force the Regionals to pay more to keep the qualified pilots from jumping ship from the left seat of an RJ to the bottom of the list of a Major. Which in turn would make a career in aviation more attractive at the regional level. Fact is though, pilots who go into aviation because they love to fly are far superior to those who go into it strictly for money. We need as many pilots who love aviation as possible to keep the bar high.