So when do the new rest rules actually happen?

[pilotyip]

I would argue with pilotyip but my wall is much closer and has more chance of listening.

feel free, one of us might be right, but only time will tell, and you may be more right than me

 

[xjhawk]

A distinct reduction for your QOL occurs that day.

or for those who have never had anymore than 11 days off in 9 years and is on reserve with 8-9 hour overnights all the time-a distinct increase in QOL

 

[CFIT]

Two things I've been told is that it will require airlines to have approximately 8% more pilots to fly the existing schedule and that rest will begin when you get to the hotel.

I'm so sick of waiting for hotel vans, maybe it will improve?

 

[pilotyip]

so does anyone really know when the final ruling will be seen, and after it is seen what will be the implementation period, Will it will include supplemental, will it count short call reserve off airport as duty? We need to know this stuff to update the hiring boom posts

 

[Nevets]

Again the numbers support which side of the argument your on. Humans do not 'need' 8 hours of sleep. The truth about this is that we will be working more for the same ammount of hours of pay. If you need more rest on an overnight after a long day, you take it. Period. Regardless what the rules permit schedulers to schedule. Not enough pilots stand up for themselves when they are truly tired and need a little more rest than what's provided by regulation.

The science has already proven the three points I wrote, one being that the average human needs about 8 hours of restful sleep. That is ALL I'm saying. I'm not talking about employers, attendance policies, sick banks, days off, pay, etc.

 

[OCP]

so does anyone really know when the final ruling will be seen, and after it is seen what will be the implementation period, Will it will include supplemental, will it count short call reserve off airport as duty? We need to know this stuff to update the hiring boom posts

Part of the BS of when this starts is that this 2 years of waiting for these rules is to allow the companies to see how to implement these changes. But, as we know, the companies are using this as a 2 year reprieve and shoveling as much as they can down on us until 1 year and 364 days. Then they'll probably get an extension because they weren't ready.

 

[pilotyip]

Did the 1500 hour rule get tabled? I heard a rumor that it was being substantially watered down or eliminiated.

Still a work in progress, from what I hear. Also Part 117 does not apply to all cargo carriers

 

[IBNAV8R]

Again the numbers support which side of the argument your on. Humans do not 'need' 8 hours of sleep. The truth about this is that we will be working more for the same ammount of hours of pay. If you need more rest on an overnight after a long day, you take it. Period. Regardless what the rules permit schedulers to schedule. Not enough pilots stand up for themselves when they are truly tired and need a little more rest than what's provided by regulation.

I suspect this sentiment will be at the heart of "alternative compliance" schemes. "We'll keep scheduling you like we want and YOU tell us when you're fatigued. You're not REALLY that tired are you? You just need a good, strong cup of coffee." "Did we mention we can NOW schedule you for 9 hours?"

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Romney will cancel those new rules on day 1. Don't worry. (Not to turn this to politics).

 

[Clutch]

Romney will cancel those new rules on day 1. Don't worry. (Not to turn this to politics).

ya just did. That's a retarded statement. You retarded?

 

[Twisted Mind]

A lot of regionals have started to hire. Little early to call it a boom, but YIP might be right.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Why is it retarded? You don't think Romney will cater only to major corporate interests? Who do you thinks backing him?

 

[Clutch]

You think pilots' rest rules are priority number one for a new president?

Ok. Retarded was harsh. It's a silly notion though, slappy.

 

[mtsupilot376]

In theory, that's how it should work. But most regional pilots are barely scraping by as it is. So there is the financial dis-incentive to calling fatigued when necessary. Some companies also have punitive policies which discourage fatigue calls. It's total BS, but part of the screwed up status quo.

Specifically, option two out of the three possible outcomes for a fatigue call (seems to be the most popular by the company, btw) whereby the fatigue call is accepted and deemed non-operationally related, pilot is removed from schedule for rest, and paid out of his available SICK bank.

…and someone please explain to me how that is not punitive? ALPA seems to think that's all fine and dandy.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Everyone might want to reread the sections of the .pdf and look at Fatigue Risk Mitigation Program (FRMS). The tables at the end of it aren't as cut and dry as thought...

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Specifically, option two out of the three possible outcomes for a fatigue call (seems to be the most popular by the company, btw) whereby the fatigue call is accepted and deemed non-operationally related, pilot is removed from schedule for rest, and paid out of his available SICK bank.

…and someone please explain to me how that is not punitive? ALPA seems to think that's all fine and dandy.

If the fatigue was the responsibility of the company, you are paid from the company. If the fatigue was not (sick baby at home, just couldn't sleep, or whatever) it is paid from your sick bank. It's way better than the old way, which was a chief pilot reviewed the farigue event, and it was completely unpaid if not the responsibility of the company.

The FRC has an ALPA rep and a company rep. They review all fatigue reports, and determine the cause. So far, it has been a big success. There is a lot of room for learning on both the pilot side and company side (scheduling). Change won't be overnight, but things are improving.

 

[No Delay]

It couild also mean fewer dayd off in order to make guarentee, watch out for those unintented consquences

Min guarantee and min days off can be negotiated in our contract. These new regulations are setting min rest. It is not min work! Just keep that in mind.

 

[pilotyip]

Min guarantee and min days off can be negotiated in our contract. These new regulations are setting min rest. It is not min work! Just keep that in mind.

I am keeping that in mind, but we have not seen it yet, but there are always unintended consequences. Present schedules can not be flown with the new rules, schedules will have to adjusted, so we do not know what those will look like.

 

[HA25]

A distinct reduction for your QOL occurs that day.

in that....

 

[HA25]

... The truth about this is that we will be working more for the same ammount of hours of pay. ...

or here's a bright idea... why not work less hours for same (or even more pay)... grab your nuts man.