So what are United's new proposed rates?

[Jetjockey]

Newman, are you a career RJ guy?????.......cause you sound like one.

 

[nimtz]

So just wondering do you really expect to keep our scope without any concessions? I have no idea what is in the AIP(no one does), I can almost guarantee that we will not keep our scope. We need to stop being idealistic and be more realistic

Newman there will be plenty of time to get into the TA discussion with rational intelligent people. You are not in this group so I won't bother myself with your opinions. After all you were gitty to vote NO for the strike ballot. Given that and your past history at Skyw I wouldn't even want to discuss the weather with a 1% like you. Sorry you were the victim of so many swirlies back in high school.

 

[densoo]

We need to stop being idealistic and be more realistic

How about fatalistic. Vote no--regardless.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

What happened to the initial thread about the AIP? I was trying to go back and see what the rumor payscale from the LAX rep was and the whole thread was deleted.

Can someone repost that? Thanks.

Moderators: Not enjoying you guys removing information from flightinfo, even if it's bad information. It smacks of censorship and I might not visit this site anymore if this happens again. And I'll steer others away.

 

[bluechunks]

What happened to the initial thread about the AIP? I was trying to go back and see what the rumor payscale from the LAX rep was and the whole thread was deleted..

The rumor was: just take a look at the DAL contract and subtract $1 per hour. It was claimed to be worth more per hour than DAL in total but some of the compensation has been assigned to improved retirement and benefits and not just straight pay.

 

[NavinRJohnson]

Thanks bluechunks....

 

[Continental]

Don't need to look at it. It won't be industry leading in every aspect. Pay rates, work rules, retirement. It won't tighten scope. It won't contain 100% retro. I want every single penny those MF's have stolen from me over the past years.

"NO" vote.
FUPM strong as ever here!

 

[hockeypilot44]

I'd hate to say it, but the profession has been reset. DALPA reinforced this with their new deal. In 2015, it will pay what the 2k contract paid in its first year (the retro back-pay year). We have lost. Not only has scope deteriorated to the point that over half the domestic market is now outsourced, but we didn't even get anything for it. With the RLA, our hands are tied. Whether you like it or not, you lost. Now your only option is to take the TA being prepared and just accept that it's better than your current situation. FWIW, I think I am a permanent no voter.

 

["TheBigPicture"]

What happened to the initial thread about the AIP? I was trying to go back and see what the rumor payscale from the LAX rep was and the whole thread was deleted.

Can someone repost that? Thanks.

Moderators: Not enjoying you guys removing information from flightinfo, even if it's bad information. It smacks of censorship and I might not visit this site anymore if this happens again. And I'll steer others away.

I emailed the site administrator about this, the first response was "what thread?" I am still waiting to hear back from my second request re-stating directly "which" thread...:erm::erm:

 

[NavinRJohnson]

I emailed the site administrator about this, the first response was "what thread?" I am still waiting to hear back from my second request re-stating directly "which" thread...:erm::erm:

I remember it being titled United AIP, and I posted a couple of times on it. Did searches for the title and for my past posts. It's been turned into thin air.

Glad I'm not the only one that felt that way.... Thanks for emailing---I should've thought of that. I'll email him as well.

Navin

 

[Captain X]

The rumor was: just take a look at the DAL contract and subtract $1 per hour. It was claimed to be worth more per hour than DAL in total but some of the compensation has been assigned to improved retirement and benefits and not just straight pay.

Wait, so you mean I have to look at more than just pay tables to determine the whole value of a contract!?!?!?! :nuts:

 

[Captain X]

I have my doubts about any gag order now that the AIP is in place. I suspect it has something to do with Pierce seeking cover from the resolution passed by his pilots requiring them to see any agreement before their MEC votes on it for member ratification.

What about the resolution that requires any substantial change to pay, work rules, retirement, or job protection provisions to be put to a pilot vote?

CAL pilots -- so smart we even outsmart ourselves.

 

[Full of LUV]

How about fatalistic. Vote no--regardless.

How bout supercalafragilistic?

 

[HelloNewman]

Newman there will be plenty of time to get into the TA discussion with rational intelligent people. You are not in this group so I won't bother myself with your opinions. After all you were gitty to vote NO for the strike ballot. Given that and your past history at Skyw I wouldn't even want to discuss the weather with a 1% like you. Sorry you were the victim of so many swirlies back in high school.

I suppose I could have voted yes for the strike as there is little to no risk of actually being released. Still not interested in a strike though so I had to vote with my beliefs. All I am saying is getting Delta scope really that bad for us? 50 seat only scope was nice while we had it I am just being a realist. Fact is there is a place for 70 seaters in our system. First class for the biz travellers and right sized airplanes on certain routes. I don't want unlimited outsourcing I simply want realism and a nice raise with some retro. If we have to keep a few 70 seaters with strict limits then so be it.

 

[whymeworry?]

I suppose I could have voted yes for the strike as there is little to no risk of actually being released. Still not interested in a strike though so I had to vote with my beliefs. All I am saying is getting Delta scope really that bad for us? 50 seat only scope was nice while we had it I am just being a realist. Fact is there is a place for 70 seaters in our system. First class for the biz travellers and right sized airplanes on certain routes. I don't want unlimited outsourcing I simply want realism and a nice raise with some retro. If we have to keep a few 70 seaters with strict limits then so be it.

Tell that to the 1,437 UAL pilots who were furloughed simply because their union felt 70-seaters would not harm them. They, and every pilot who got pushed down in seniority, were hosed because their union negotiators are so incompetent. 70-seaters replaced 737-500 flying. The A318, 319, and 737-700 will be the next to go if this scope is accepted.

Delta, by contrast to what is being offered to us, received guaranteed scope protections PLUS a gain of 88 B717s. DAL vs UAL is an apples to oranges comparison. Be leery of anyone, union or management, who make that "well, that's what DAL has" argument.

I spoke with a Captain recently who spoke directly to Chip Benton (Dir of MP). He told him in no uncertainty that there will be zero growth at the new UAL for the for-seeable future. IOW, as new 737s are delivered, UALs B757-200s will be retired and A319s, 73-700s will be replaced with 70 seaters. In fact, I read just yesterday in a company memo that the 150 recent Boeing order are REPLACEMENT aircraft only. NO GROWTH.

You can get all the gains you want in a pilot contract, once they outsource flying to 70-seaters the risk of you getting furloughed increases greatly. The reality of you stagnating on the seniority list becomes a virtual certainty.

 

[Dan Roman]

How bout supercalafragilistic?

you left out expedaloicious

 

[rattler]

So just wondering do you really expect to keep our scope without any concessions? I have no idea what is in the AIP(no one does), I can almost guarantee that we will not keep our scope. We need to stop being idealistic and be more realistic

I find the attitude on this board disappointing. Your tone lends to giving up. I guess we should bring on the big RJs and let the 10 year stagnation begin. That is what management wants you to believe is "industry standard", and you bought it. At least man up to your yes vote.

 

[rattler]

They have to finish the TA first. Everything you have read about the deal is total BS. No one knows anything yet.

Partially true, the rumor posted earlier in this thread was released from the LAX Reps by mistake. The information was extremely premature, but non the less, the source is very credible, as they were briefed by the NC.

 

[FDJ2]

DAL borrowed $600M, put it in escrow, to be paid to pilots upon completion of contract/SLI. $400M is pennies to these companies.

No, there was no retro, therefore no need to borrow $600M with regards to the DAL/NWA JCBA. Both DAL and NWA pilots had pay parity and a JCBA on the date of corporate closure, Oct 2008.

The DAL and NWA pilots negotiated an equity share in the merged company, 3.5% for pre-merger Delta pilots and 2.38 % for the pre‐merger Northwest pilots, which was a proportional amount, given the size of the two pilot groups, but that was not retro money, but rather a nice bonus.

 

[LearLove]

I suppose I could have voted yes for the strike as there is little to no risk of actually being released. Still not interested in a strike though so I had to vote with my beliefs. All I am saying is getting Delta scope really that bad for us? 50 seat only scope was nice while we had it I am just being a realist. Fact is there is a place for 70 seaters in our system. First class for the biz travellers and right sized airplanes on certain routes. I don't want unlimited outsourcing I simply want realism and a nice raise with some retro. If we have to keep a few 70 seaters with strict limits then so be it.

Stupid is as stupid posts...