So I got the job now what?

[BushwickBill]

After hundreds hours of dual given I've finally been given the chance to fly something other than a 152. I've been given the privlage of working as a standby pilot for a small part 91 operation that uses a Citation CJ1 (525). I'm thrilled and I feel ready to step up to the challenge of being part of a crew and flying faster than 90 knots.

So I'm wondering if some of you experienced pilots can help a guy out.

What do you like to see in a SIC?
What is the most annoying thing an SIC can do?
What is the most helpful thing a SIC can do?
How should I act around the owner of the aircraft? (the pilots seem really chilled out when they see him)

Anyhow hope to get some helpful hints. I'm also going to post this tread in the training forum, I hope thats Kosher.

 

[semperfido]

What do you like to see in a SIC?

good attitude,teamwork and open to suggestions - works both ways

What is the most annoying thing an SIC can do?

make excuses

What is the most helpful thing a SIC can do?

the jepps

How should I act around the owner of the aircraft?

smile and be friendly

 

[Flying Illini]

Be professional. Know you're stuff. Are they sending you to school or doing in-house training? If it's just in-house, get your hands on all available info and learn it. Know your memory items. You are a crew-member now, which means you need to contribute. Don't make the captain fly the plane and baby-sit you. It will take you 50 hrs or so to get comfy in the plane, then you will really feel like you are contributing. Work hard, absorb as much knowledge from the others as you can. Ask intelligent questions and learn from them. Ask a question if you don't understand why they did something when they did it. ASK QUESTIONS! You will learn a ton from that and it will accelerate your learning process.
Have fun. Be professional.
Around the owner, act like the rest of them, professional but relaxed. Don't address him as "Dude" unless he tells you to!

 

[XTW]

What is the most annoying thing an SIC can do?

Pick your nose.


X

 

[TransMach]

F/O Success

Mate,

Now don't get me wrong, but is this new gig of yours in BUR and is it associated with TWC Aviation?

TransMach

 

[FL350]

What the he!! does it matter??

 

[casper1nine]

do your homework on what if any special conditions must be met for you to even log the sic time on what is usually a single pilot airplane. congratulations on your big break!

-casper1nine

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Just be honest. If you dont know something - ask. Everyone started somewhere. If you see something you are not comfy with - say so. You are not there to tune the radios.

Hopefully you are flying with confident, smart guys who will help you along - especially if you show initiative....do your share (all of it - haha) of the $hit work - jepps, restocking, etc...

Be professional around the owners, even if they are "real laid back". A smile and a chat are always good, just remember - at the end of the day you are still the hired help, not thier buddy.

Have fun!

 

[HMR]

Congratulations! The CJ1 is a GREAT jet to learn in.

 

[AlabamaMan!!]

I may be wrong.....correct me if I am........but isnt the CJ only single pilot if the pilot gets the certification? Its not like a BE350 where only one pilot is required in the limitations.......I think Cessna says one or two pilots, which would mean if the dispatched capt. is not CE-525"S", then it is a 2 pilot gig.

Not sure, maybe some CJ jockeys can set it straight.

Anyhow, the best you can do until you arent so far behind the airplane you'd survive a midair is to 1)listen 2)learn 3)learn some more 4)do as much of the non flying work as possible early on (preflights, setting up cabin, getting numbers, etc.)

Oh..make sure you become familiar with the performance section of the AFM.......wet numbers, advisory section, climb gradients etc.

A lot more to consider now that your out of the little cessna's

Best of luck, keep a good attitude and always be willing to listen and learn.....and remember, when you see someone do something a differnet way than you're used to, that there are 100 ways to skin a cat, as long as it gets the job done (unless unsafe, of course)

 

[BushwickBill]

Thanks to all of those who left a helpfull suggestion. If anyone is curious I'm going to add a bit more in terms of details and answer a few questions.

Are they sending you to school or doing in-house training?

Its an in house training deal for now. I have a feeling its going to be that way until they are sure the want to drop the mega bucks on getting me the 70% course. That flight safety stuff aint cheap. I would be more comforatable with the FSI course before flying the plane but I got a big flight safety binder and I'm burning the midnight oil.

congratulations on your big break!

Casper1nine thanks man I guess I wont have too much trouble with the multi time deal now

I may be wrong.....correct me if I am........but isnt the CJ only single pilot if the pilot gets the certification? Its not like a BE350 where only one pilot is required in the limitations.......I think Cessna says one or two pilots, which would mean if the dispatched capt. is not CE-525"S", then it is a 2 pilot gig.

Ok more than one of you asked about this. The current SIC guy just got PIC qualified and he has been flying this plane pretty much exclusivly so I'm guessing the time counts. Also they are both instructors and typed so I guess I can log it that way too. I'll update you on this. The current captain says I get SIC but I know that dont mean much.

Mate,

Now don't get me wrong, but is this new gig of yours in BUR and is it associated with TWC Aviation?

TransMach

I have no idea what your talking about....

Once again thanks for all your suggestions. If anyone else has anything to add please let me know.

I'll update you after the first trip - This weekend!

Thanks all

 

[Photoflight]

well if hes a MEI you should be able to at least recieve dual given.

Congrats by the way

I'm on my first trip in the citation II and its an incredibly easy plane to fly.

 

[Dinger]

From a current CJ2 guy..........the CJ is single pilot only if the pilot is typed "s". If the PIC is not typed for single pilot ops, a second pilot is required.

Enjoy the aircraft. It is very simple. Gear, flaps.....flaps, Gear (coffee and conversation in between). A great jet to cut your teeth on.

I have extra FS CJ1 books/quick ref hand books/ Checklists if you need them.....PM me. Or if you have questions regarding the aircraft (no such thing as a dumb question....especially if it is your firt jet!)

Best of luck......Dinger

 

[FracCapt]

Pick your nose.


X

Is it OK if the PIC picks his nose? I sure hope so.....if not....well....forget I asked...

 

[HMR]

Mate,

Now don't get me wrong, but is this new gig of yours in BUR and is it associated with TWC Aviation?

TransMach

I don't think TWC hires guys with 650hrs. They also send you to FSI for the type rating ASAP.

 

[MissKittyKat]

Bushwick! CONGRULATIONS ON YOUR 91! I think most people reading would be so happy for you. I'm an F/a so I'm not a pilot and cant give advice on flying! Just be safe! You obviously set a goal and got it!

Yah, lets be so happy for this member! Flying and planes, sooooo cool!

Wishing you totally the best in your career! You gott it going on!

MissKittyKat

 

[cptsesso]

"How should I act around the owner of the aircraft? (the pilots seem really chilled out when they see him)"

True example of how not to act:

A guy who flew SIC with a friend of mine in a Westwind was asked this question by the owner, " So, you think you could land this thing?" His reply was "um ya, I guess I could if it was a good day". Needless to say, he did not last much longer after that.

Just act professionally. Once you get to know each other, then you can follow the example of the other pilots.

 

[English]

You can log SIC time in the CJ1 - regardless of which type the captain has. Go at it and have FUN!

(TWC has a CJ2, not a CJ1).

The most annoying thing to me is having to tell an SIC over and over again to restock the aircraft, check the expiration on the sodas, replenish the ice, get the clearance, etc etc etc. Take notes the first day and get a routine down as soon as possible. I being at the aircraft 1 hour prior to departure (for domestic flights). Do the preflight beofre you do anything else. Then get the cabin ready. At 30 minutes before departure, get the clearance, set up the FMS and get the performance numebrs. By 20 minutes before departure time, you should be sitting in the FBO waiting for your pax, relaxing in air conditioned-splendor.

The other annoying thing is to hear from SICs is "I'm just doing this until I get hired at a major", or my favorite, "I don't get paid to do that". Be a go-to guy that your captain can count on. Consider yourself a captain in training, and learn how to do your and the captain's job.

 

[FracCapt]

I being at the aircraft 1 hour prior to departure (for domestic flights). Do the preflight beofre you do anything else. Then get the cabin ready. At 30 minutes before departure, get the clearance, set up the FMS and get the performance numebrs. By 20 minutes before departure time, you should be sitting in the FBO waiting for your pax, relaxing in air conditioned-splendor.

Just curious....what's the Captain doing all this time while the FO does all the work? That's not how I run my ship. Two pilots are required...share the load. Doing the flight planning, filing, checking weather, paying the bill, etc....takes 15 minutes(unless International, then it depends on where you're going). I fly with many FO's that are suprised when I actually do the preflight, get the cabin ready, do the numbers/clearance, or anything other than sit in the FBO really. That's pretty sad...it shows what most of the other Captains are doing.

 

[Flying Illini]

Just curious....what's the Captain doing all this time while the FO does all the work? That's not how I run my ship. Two pilots are required...share the load. Doing the flight planning, filing, checking weather, paying the bill, etc....takes 15 minutes(unless International, then it depends on where you're going). I fly with many FO's that are suprised when I actually do the preflight, get the cabin ready, do the numbers/clearance, or anything other than sit in the FBO really. That's pretty sad...it shows what most of the other Captains are doing.

I'm sure each company is different.

At ours:
Captain:
Print charts (jeppview)
file flight plan
check wx
preflight aircraft (including cockpit before start items)
ATIS/Clearance (if in aircraft with APU...program FMS's in accordance w/ before start checklist)

FO:
Aircraft stores (including coffee, ice, papers, special requests in any)
Interior cleanliness
check wx
preflight (not required but two sets of eyes are better than one)
Help with printing and organizing charts
ATIS/Clearance (if in aircraft with no APU...program FMS's in accordance w/ afterstart checklist)

Those are the assigned duties, but in reality, we both help each other. Sometimes one person finishes his duties first and will then help the other guy with whatever he has remaining.

 

[User546]

It was just a matter of time before this turned into a "You can't log SIC in a CJ" thread.

Stop and ask yourself. Do you think every qualified co-pilot in a CJ1 / CJ2 is doing it without the benefit of being able to log it? Sure theres some out there, but a lot of business and corporations have CJ's as part of their flight departments. Do you think a co-pilot is going to work for a company for 2 or 3 years without being able to log any of the time?

Just follow the SIC requirements outlined in Part 61, and/or make sure the company has it written in their ops manual that a second pilot is required by your operations. There should be no questions or problems about it then. Our company just had another pilot with a load of CJ2 SIC time go onto a larger corporate job. It must've counted for something, cause his total time wouldn't have been much without it.

 

[English]

Just curious....what's the Captain doing all this time while the FO does all the work? That's not how I run my ship. Two pilots are required...share the load. Doing the flight planning, filing, checking weather, paying the bill, etc....takes 15 minutes(unless International, then it depends on where you're going). I fly with many FO's that are suprised when I actually do the preflight, get the cabin ready, do the numbers/clearance, or anything other than sit in the FBO really. That's pretty sad...it shows what most of the other Captains are doing.

Wow. If the preflight, cabin prep and clearance is all that needs to be done to prepare your aircraft for a trip, you must be something special.

 

[cezzna]

If you have two qualified pilots flying the airplane the guy in the right seat actually does alot more work. Radios, Atis, when to pull charts, fiddling with the radar, checklists, FMS management, backing up the FMS with raw data. It's a juggling match and you have to anticipate when to do all of these things and more. You won't be able to at first, but eventually you will be expected to manage this stuff without being babysitted. The left seater is usually busy with the actual control of the airplane and if concentrating intently can be a bit more out of the loop. Where i work we seat swap and all are typed. When I'm in the right seat sometimes I work my A$$ off. This is especially true on short legs on the east coast. TEB to somewhere within 100 miles for example. You'll get re-routes galore and you in the right seat get to manage them. Congrats and good luck

 

[BushwickBill]

Ok guys thanks for all the help. And thank you Dinger for offering the matierials, really cool of you. I will PM you to find out what you've got. I have all the FSI stuff for initial type rating from one of the pilots. So I'm guessing that should cover it.

I'll update you guys after the first trip. Tommorow! I'm hoping we can keep this thread going to keep other poor starving CFI from giving up hope. It may help others if they get lucky too.

 

[HMR]

I'm hoping we can keep this thread going to keep other poor starving CFI from giving up hope.

Does this mean they're paying you enough not to be a poor, starving CJ F/O?


Have fun on your trip!

 

[User546]

Does this mean they're paying you enough not to be a poor, starving CJ F/O?

Ahh come on, I make good money as an F/O on a CJ/2!

Have fun on your trip as well, and let us know how it goes! You'll defintely remember this first trip in a jet the rest of your flying career!

 

[FracCapt]

Wow. If the preflight, cabin prep and clearance is all that needs to be done to prepare your aircraft for a trip, you must be something special.

Either you didn't read my post, or your reading comprehension is very poor. Why don't you enlighten me on everything that you have to do....since I'm so new to this whole jet PIC thing...

 

[English]

Are you a fractional pilot? If so, your responsibilities are DIFFERENT (and probably a lot fewer) than those of a corporate or charter pilot.

But thanks for the insults anyway. I'm sorry you are having a bad day.

 

[FracCapt]

Are you a fractional pilot? If so, your responsibilities are DIFFERENT (and probably a lot fewer) than those of a corporate or charter pilot.

Ahh....I guess I have it pretty good then. Please, enlighten me. I'm not TRYING to be a d!ck....I just naturally come across that way. I don't mince words, though..

But thanks for the insults anyway. I'm sorry you are having a bad day.

Actually, I'm not. Well, I do have a cold that's kicking my ass....but other than that, things are great. I'm only bitter and pissed off every other week...which, suprisingly, happen to coincide with my work weeks.

 

[HMR]

Why don't you enlighten me on everything that you have to do....since I'm so new to this whole jet PIC thing...

English's plan called for everything to be done in 40 minutes. Sounds about right. In our dept., the PNF does all the stuff English mentioned. Meanwhile the PF or "trip Captain" is paying the bill, double-checking catering, double-checking transportation, etc. The trip Captain also does all the flight planning and arranges all lodging, transportation, fuel pricing, etc. long before we arrive at the airport. In our case, the "FO" has it easy.

If you guys have a more efficient way at the Fracs... please share.