Sneak Preview UAIR EMB 170

[lowecur]

Looks quite nice.

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=&picid=802

 

[Mr Hat]

MMM I want one!
I am sorry to say though, that those airplanes should be flown at USair and not at their "regionals". Screw jets for jobs, yes its good that those furloughed pilots have jobs now but the E170/190 is going to pay much less at the regional level because of course, regionals are stepping stones right? And its going to trickle upward into mainline aircrafts pay rates. Pay for aircraft with around 100 seats has already been set with the F100 at AMR and the smaller 737s at nearly every other major. Now they are going RESET those pay rates down to large turbo prop rates. It will spread through the enitre industry, watch.
The other problem is that once those airplanes are given to the regionals, nothing can stop them....that flying is gone, never to return. Getting furloughed pilots jobs flying 70-100 seat airplanes at the regionals is great short term thinking but over the long term, it will hurt the profession. Soon all the 737's will be paying 110.00 an hour........10 years from now, who knows, 140.00 an hour on the 777.

If we dont take this by the horns, we are all going to pay. Go to your respective MEC and talk about having one single MEC for your brand. The next move after you merge all the MEC's is to put ALL the seniority lists together to stop the whipsawing. The managements are winning this game and every year the airline pilot profession looses more and more. Regional pilots, major pilots....it doesnt matter, everyone is going to pay if we don't join forces in order to stop the managements of the world from pitting us against ourselves!

I highly suggest reading this months Air Line Pilot, in it they did a little story on "brand" scope.....essentially single seniority lists, single MECs and single contracts.

 

[Intruder One]

MR. HAT................Good post but you are wasting your breath.One of the last Mesa classes had all 350 to 500hr. San Juan and they do not care about the industry.These low time kids are only looking at right now and what this time will do for them.I could buy 100 of these A/C and I would have resumes a mile high that would fly them for $20.00 a hour.

The sooner these people wake up and realize that they are not all going to make it to the majors they may worry a little more about their current pay and benefits.It is a puzzle that is going to be hard to solve.

 

[Treme]

Bravo! That could be a thread all its own!

 

[man-down]

Mr. Hat -

I am furloughed from USAir and couldn't agree with you more. They wasted a lot of leverage getting those J4jobs deals going. I was once asked at a lec meeting (after I had been furloughed for four months) if I liked the J4jobs program and did I as a furloughed pilot want people to vote in favor for it.

My reply was to fight for as many mainline jobs as possible. If US Air was going to flood the market with 300-400 rj's I can get my own job. That did not impress the person whom I was speaking with and he bagan to preach how J4J was going to save my world.

Well december of 2003 I did recieve a letter to fly for mesa, rt seat at $35 hour with a one year training contract. I guess if I wasn't in the SWA pool I might have taken them up on the offer, since I was just furloughed again, but I could find a better place than mesa to work on my own; like Wendy's.

 

[Heavy Set]

So, when is the EMB 170 expected to actually fly for USAirways/Mid Atlantic? What's the start date? How many pilots have been trained for it? Any actual pilot impressions yet?

 

[man-down]

HS -


I do not even pay attention to J4J except what I might get in the mail, or what a buddy might tell me he /she heard.

 

[Bluestreaker]

MMM I want one!
I am sorry to say though, that those airplanes should be flown at USair and not at their "regionals". Screw jets for jobs, yes its good that those furloughed pilots have jobs now but the E170/190 is going to pay much less at the regional level because of course, regionals are stepping stones right? And its going to trickle upward into mainline aircrafts pay rates. Pay for aircraft with around 100 seats has already been set with the F100 at AMR and the smaller 737s at nearly every other major. Now they are going RESET those pay rates down to large turbo prop rates. It will spread through the enitre industry, watch.
The other problem is that once those airplanes are given to the regionals, nothing can stop them....that flying is gone, never to return. Getting furloughed pilots jobs flying 70-100 seat airplanes at the regionals is great short term thinking but over the long term, it will hurt the profession. Soon all the 737's will be paying 110.00 an hour........10 years from now, who knows, 140.00 an hour on the 777.

someone droped the ball on mid atlantic. if you mainline guys don't like the regional pay rate then why did you agree to it. And mid atlantic has nothing to do with J4J. all the 170's will be staffed with 100% furloughed mainline guys and gals.
dont worry though, airways will be out of business soon and we can all work for wendys.

 

[eaglefly]

Sadly, the 70-seat ball was fumbled years ago.

70-seat RJ's are flown by at least a half-dozen Regionals already totaling over 50 aircraft and climbing.

The 90-seaters are still saveable, BUT you'll have two choices fly them for Jetblue pay AND BENEFITS (no retirement) or wave bye-bye as they go to the regionals.

Additionally, EVERY associated mainline employee group will have to work for AT MOST what JetBlue does.

THAT is the future of the industry.

Most of us wish it were different.

 

[B6Busdriver]

someone droped the ball on mid atlantic. if you mainline guys don't like the regional pay rate then why did you agree to it. And mid atlantic has nothing to do with J4J. all the 170's will be staffed with 100% furloughed mainline guys and gals.
dont worry though, airways will be out of business soon and we can all work for wendys.

It was jammed down the throats of mainline pilots. Don't you pay attention to what is going on in this industry?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Mr Hat,
Thanks for a great post!

 

[Frac Daddy]

The 90-seaters are still saveable, BUT you'll have two choices fly them for Jetblue pay AND BENEFITS (no retirement) or wave bye-bye as they go to the regionals.

Since you mentioned it, what will be the pay rate for jetBlue on the EMB?

 

[Heavy Set]

So, what is the start date for EMB-170 for USAirways/Mid Atlantic? Any dates scheduled yet? Any estimates?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Mr. Hat :

Good post. My understanding is that LEFT seat in the E170 for US Airways pays $58.75 an hour.

At some point ALPA is going to have to stop supporting the policies that fragment our airlines into alter ego carriers that compete against our union brothers for jobs. Obviously this airplane serves as a perfect example of ALPA's failed scope policy and as more fall out of what happened at the 2000 Board of Director's meeting.

The Delta MEC, Comair and ASA MEC's are in "super secret" negotiations that were even kept from ASA and Comair's elected status reps. It is thought (not yet confirmed) that these "super secret" meetings involve the 45 RJ order and Delta's version of jets for jobs.

Unless the RJDC can do something about it, this is Delta's narrowbody domestic future as well. The MD88's will be retired along with the 737-200's. The 757's will be in service with Song.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[Astra Guy]

Hey Lowe,

Pretty airplane. I was wondering how does one land this thing in a crosswind? The engines look to be less than 1' off of the ground. Maybe they have castering gear.

 

[lowecur]

ron

Hey Lowe,

Pretty airplane. I was wondering how does one land this thing in a crosswind? The engines look to be less than 1' off of the ground. Maybe they have castering gear.

Don't know what castering gear is, but it sounds like training wheels. It's a strong little devil, as one of the TP's left the gear up and put it down hard. The plane skidded for awhile on the runway, but no major structural damage.

 

[Bluestreaker]

It was jammed down the throats of mainline pilots. Don't you pay attention to what is going on in this industry?

Yeah i pay attention to the us mainliners jamming a scope clause down the wholly owneds throats and now 2 of the 3 have no future, thanks alot.

Anyway MDA or "us airways EMB division" would be a huge waste of money when you already have 2 other WO who didnt have the FAA shut down their training dept.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Yeah i pay attention to the us mainliners jamming a scope clause down the wholly owneds throats and now 2 of the 3 have no future, thanks alot.

Anyway MDA or "us airways EMB division" would be a huge waste of money when you already have 2 other WO who didnt have the FAA shut down their training dept.

I agree with much of what you say. Do you think US management would ever have agreed to letting the WO's get the new rj's? It's all about cheaper labor, and it sucks! Furthermore, as much as the J4J program sucks it may have given the other WO's jets. I'm sure a paycut would have been involved too. Every furloughee has had the opportunity to particapate in the J4J program. AAA ALPA has even contacted those who didn't respond to the J4J paperwork sent out months ago.

 

[jetblue320]

JB EMB190 Pay

Since you mentioned it, what will be the pay rate for jetBlue on the EMB?

It isn't official yet but we have been told by the uppers that it will be somewhere about 65% of what the A320 scales are. That would be about $72 an hour for an EMB190 Captain (1st year) based on our current rates. There have been many threads on this forum about that very subject if you want to research it.

See ya.

 

[jetblue320]

Sadly, the 70-seat ball was fumbled years ago.

70-seat RJ's are flown by at least a half-dozen Regionals already totaling over 50 aircraft and climbing.

The 90-seaters are still saveable, BUT you'll have two choices fly them for Jetblue pay AND BENEFITS (no retirement) or wave bye-bye as they go to the regionals.

Additionally, EVERY associated mainline employee group will have to work for AT MOST what JetBlue does.

THAT is the future of the industry.

Most of us wish it were different.

Are you saying we don't have a retirement at JB? If you think of a "retirement" as a company backed pension fund (A or B) then I guess you are correct. However, I think, as probably most folks do, that a "retirement" can be any of the wide array of compensation packages available like 401k, company funded profit sharing, stock options, and a host of other plans. Maybe I am off base but it appears that your post has a lot of buckshot in it.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Intruder One]

Even a Mesa has a 401K.........big deal

 

[eaglefly]

A company paid defined-benefit plan (i.e., A fund/B fund) as found at UAL, AA, DAL and NWA.

 

[delivery100]

When I decided to become an airline pilot, I sacraficed 50K in college loans, 30K in obtaining ratings, 7 years of working for shlt wages so I could become an airline pilot for a major carrier with attractive wages and benefits. If I would have known what this industry is becoming, I would have never even began. It kills me when I see these 23 year olds springing wood to fly a 70 seater for garbage man wages. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE F*CKING COFFEE!! YOUR RUINNING YOUR CAREER AND THE PROFESSION!!!

 

[Jaffo]

garbage men make better wages than those new hires flying 70 seaters, even beter than some senior captains!

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

When I decided to become an airline pilot, I sacraficed 50K in college loans, 30K in obtaining ratings, 7 years of working for shlt wages so I could become an airline pilot for a major carrier with attractive wages and benefits. If I would have known what this industry is becoming, I would have never even began. It kills me when I see these 23 year olds springing wood to fly a 70 seater for garbage man wages. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE F*CKING COFFEE!! YOUR RUINNING YOUR CAREER AND THE PROFESSION!!!

Hey I agree with you. But imagine that 23 year old kid paying 100 bucks an hour to fly 182, and all of the sudden some one is offering him to fly a jet...and THEY are gonna PAY him!
My point is that most people who get into this business don't start thinking about money, QOL, retirement and all those nice things, until flying that jet becomes just a job (a year or two and a couple of thousand hours leter.)
The supply of those 23 year old kids will never end.

 

[Mr Hat]

Thanks all,

My understanding is that LEFT seat in the E170 for US Airways pays $58.75 an hour.

Thats horrible being that I fly the E145 left seat for $59.60, and we are negotiating higher pay as we speak.

At some point ALPA is going to have to stop supporting the policies that fragment our airlines into alter ego carriers that compete against our union brothers for jobs.

How right you are! ALPA is coming around on this issue but not nearly fast enough. I figure that EMB type equipment will reach equality in about 15 years or so, at that point I expect consolidation by the companies because they are going to find that they can fly 50-100 seaters for themselves for less by cutting the management structure around these airplanes if the pilots are all being paid the same "rate" and the whipsaw value is gone. By that time, our profession will have degraded beyond the point of no return. Notice that I didnt say that the EMB types will have higher pay, just that they will be equal. Think about it for a while and you'll scare yourself.

 

[Mercy98]

Astra Guy

The bottom of the nacelles are about 1 1/2' above the the ground at mtow, which is 82,000 lb. That is about the same as a B-737. A person standing just under 6' tall will have their head just under the lip of the top of the nacelle. The cabin height is 6'7".

While I haven't stood next to it myself, it does seem to deceive the eyes from the pictures I've seen too.

 

[lowecur]

Mercy

You must be a Mid-Atlantic pilot. So what do you think, are the passengers going to like it? Also, will they be heading up to ROC or SYR soon? Hope so.

 

[Crizz]

7 years of working for shlt wages so I could become an airline pilot for a major carrier

Forgive me, but isnt that what these "23 year old kids" are doing? What made it okay for you to whore yourself? Now that you are where you want to be it is very easy to criticize.

I challenge you to suggest a viable alternative to accepting a job at a regional airline.

I do not think these doomsday scenarios will play out, given the recent news of mainline recalls. Its all one big cycle. The majors were hiring 3 years ago. Has everyone forgot that fact? Granted some of the kneejerk concessions given by certain mainline pilots will linger, but whos fault is that? Certainly not the 23 year old Mesa FO.

 

[Mercy98]

lowecur,

Yes, I'm at "MAA" as some call it.

From what some have told us about the airplane, mechanics and instructors, it will be well received by the passengers. One of them, who had some "girth" to him said that when sitting in a seat, he did not feel like he was trapped like in some other regionals. He could have sat comfortably next to somebody.

First one is to be here on the 20th, with two more to follow before the end of the month. Curious why you asked about ROC and SYR. The airplane may be there in the spring.