SLI is out, it looks good for both sides

[Secret Squirrel]

If he was talking about the people that were STAPLED it would make more sense. Jr. Captains and Sr. FO's may not have gotten a fair integration but they were not stapled. Thus the STAPLE REMOVER.

 

[Lear70]

If he was talking about the people that were STAPLED it would make more sense. Jr. Captains and Sr. FO's may not have gotten a fair integration but they were not stapled. Thus the STAPLE REMOVER.

Speak for yourself. I consider myself a senior F/O (#7 in my domicile, 2 years from upgrade), and I got stapled. Just barely missed the cutoff, and now part of "Club Swingline 649".

I still found it amusing... if you can't laugh at yourself or the situations you find yourself in throughout life, it's pretty hard to be happy.

 

[Ty Webb]

If he was talking about the people that were STAPLED it would make more sense. Jr. Captains and Sr. FO's may not have gotten a fair integration but they were not stapled. Thus the STAPLE REMOVER.

Actually, what many of us Captains got was stapled to the bottom of the SWA CA list, minus some years as SWA pilots upgrade.

In about 4 years, I will have risen to the bottom of the CA list.

Currently at 29% . . . . will go to 61% . . . . ouch.

DOH with no protection at all would have probably kept me in my seat after everything shook out, or within a few months of it. Or I could have chosen to downgrade to senior FO . . . . now, I can't even do that, because after losing 4 years, I would be a junior FO.

 

[redflyer65]

Lear,

I couldn't imagine being the Number One Airtran FO and watch the money that the guy one number senior to you will be making. What heartache. Crazy.

RF

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I couldn't imagine being the Number One Airtran FO and watch the money that the guy one number senior to you will be making. What heartache. Crazy.

RF

Want to REALLY see smoke fly? Listen while the guy who missed the last upgrade by 1 number tells you about the part of the agreement which doesn't even give us our OWN measly 10-15 CA attrition places per year for the next 9 years.

He missed it by ONE number, will watch 717 CA seats vacated by retirements get replaced with SWA Captains (or SWA F/O's), and will get to fly as the #1 F/O with your F/O's who upgrade to CA ahead of him... for 9 years.

That means as an F/O he'll be flying with SWA Captains who are junior to him by Date of Hire. Just like your F/O's will have to do with our CA's now. In other words, in a few years, it'll just be reversed...

Like I said, your guys are P.O.'d and I understand why, but a lot of our guys are just as incensed, and for just as valid of reasons.

So I gotta ask... is ANYONE out there happy with the way this went down? Because if everyone is P.O.'d... well, you know what that's supposed to mean.

 

[GuppyWN]

Your #1 FO can take comfort knowing he keeps his #1 bidding power AND got Airtran captain pay!

He didn't do too badly but I'll freely admit that if I were him I'd be beyond pissed.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

That's probably the one up-side.

He'll be #1, can bid whatever the heck he wants, probably easily drop/swap and play with premium time, and make 150 TFP with weekends and holidays off and still retain 19 days off a month while the upgraded SWA F/O he's flying with is on reserve, makes 85/87/89 TFP if he doesn't want to kill his days off, and probably takes home the same amount of money (or maybe even a little less) with a much decreased quality of life than our #1 guy has.

Gotta look at the bright side...

 

[JT12345]

This is all acting on the SWA side. They have to play this down. It is soo bad here at AAI. We r the only ones with a smoking gun to our heads. And u know what...........................................................the feking US Congress said that is not allowed beoitches.

Gup this is not about AAI verse SWA pay.

It is about SWA junior reserve captain pay verse SWA senior FO pay.

And the disperatity between companies payrates is fleeting. Here today gone tomorrow.... but here today It's a nice..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j9QeUoPOi4&feature=related

 

[Clyde Frog]

who cares AT was bought!

Yeah K.H. who cares?

Keep it up.

 

[Clyde Frog]

And not one WN bro can utilize that "bump" until 2020!

This ought to pass Airtran with 99%! I'd say 100% but I know Kwick aint gonna be happy.

Gup

The smart money says this is not going to pass at AT assuming the MEC doesn't kill it first.

 

[Clyde Frog]

..........

 

[Clyde Frog]

Don't worry, this vote won't involve any chads.

Oh snap CP, you gonna take that?

 

[Empennage]

I Luv the talking points.

I think many of us are being fairly quiet and waiting to see the fireworks.

 

[madjack]

Hey the only real winners here are the 1650 SWA CPs that are untouched...Our CEOs decided to play loose and easy with our careers when they decided to merge/Acquire (whatever)...our NC/MCs dominated by FOs worked hard for this agreement...they listened to SWA Leadership and the lawyers and decided this was the fairest, least risk way forward...I will just say that it is a bitter pill for this 10+ year FO to have 851 retention slots ahead of me going forward in this uncertain economic times...but we will all have our cross to bear (except the untouched 1650 lucky SWA CPS who I hope appreciate how incredibly lucky they were to get hired at SWA back in the day)....another thing to remember is that Mr Kelly may not be done acquiring airlines and we will set a precedent with this deal...

 

[SkiFishFly]

Wonder if the AAI guys can get language protecting us in the "next" acquisition...

Would really suck to lose seniority here and then lose some more later!

 

[scoreboardII]

Here today gone tomorrow.... but here today It's a nice..

Yet history proves otherwise. Your accusation SWA has a chance to fail is baseless. The reality is, IF SWA fails or falters, everyone else would have already failed.

 

[asaflyer]

If I was told correctly then the quickest way to attempt to get things fixed while at the same time avoiding the arbitrator is for a quick rejection and not send it out for a vote.

Then they try one last time to fix things.

+1
Put me down for that.

I would happily trade seat protection (I'm an FO) and ATL fence time (could prob. hold it anyway) for a more reasonable SLI. This whole deal could be much better for both sides. My guess is that GK doesn't want the seat protection gone though as that would cost mucho $$$. However, having a 10-12% seniority increase for the SW fo's is pretty useless if they can't use it. A fair SLI means no protections needed but your NC is going to have to move closer to DOH for those to go away.

 

[jonjuan]

Yet history proves otherwise. Your accusation SWA has a chance to fail is baseless. The reality is, IF SWA fails or falters, everyone else would have already failed.

Same could be said about Eastern and Pan AM in the 70s and early 80s. Think about it.

 

[tico]

Here is my solution.....take all fo's with 4 years or less off the list....they don't count...in a real union they would still be apprentices...take the lucky 1656 and make them the lucky 1200, take everyone who was within 8.5% of upgrade and stir them together as a group. Put all airtran fo's who are above the 4 year mark but below the 8.5% group next. All swa fo' s who are above 4 but not 8.5% next...Now, we have the top group...we ratio the 4 and below group. They are the bottom. Next come the "above 4 below 8.5%" crowd. Plain DOH for all of them. The 8.5% next. They ratio but for the next 5 years only original swa get the upgrade. Next come the bottom 12.5% of both captains...ratio 1 airtran 6 swa but swa gets 5 years of "super seniority" for base and vacation. Next, take everyone left and ratio with a % gain for age.........try it you'll like it....but for the love of god would all you swatrans get it done and done now....

 

[RJ Bum]

I don't care what you guys do but for the love of God do it quick. It's getting REAL old listening to all you SWA and AT guys b1tch in every hotel van, hotel lobby and hotel bar....