sli at rah

[hockeypilot44]

Really? Because that scope clause is what is keeping Midwest pilots from being recalled ahead of an actual seniority list integration.

And as for RAH pilots putting Midwest pilots on the street...just look at Frontier. Those pilots have not been displaced or furloughed at the hand of RAH pilots. Is it that we like the F9 pilots better? Is it because they are so much closer to RAH pilots in pay than to Midwest pilots? Is it because RAH pilots want to fly the Airbus, but not a 717?

No. The difference is that Frontier was, is, and will continue to be a viable airline. Midwest was a great airline, and had a tremendous product, but that product was no longer producing. Frontier pilots are receiving the same treatment that Midwest pilots are. Each is stuck in their situation until the SLI is complete. Midwest pilots can't be recalled to RAH and Frontier pilots can't be recalled either. If saving labor cost was BB's ultimate goal, why haven't Frontier pilots been furloughed, and Airbuses sold or returned?

Midwest Airlines could not sustain itself. Customers loved it, pilots took pride in a job well done, and everyone earned their place in the colorful history of our industry. But midwest took a wrong turn at the hands of management. They wound up with a single fleet type that proved trapping. The plane could not fly long range, it was no longer produced, there were few aftermarket airframes available, and the plane itself limited the amount of revenue that could be generated. Choosing the 717 was not necessarily anyone's fault, but it ended up putting too many limitations on a business that needed to rapidly adapt to an economy and industry in turmoil. The 717 smothered Midwest. Airtran reluctantly had to find a different airframe to meet its expansion needs. MIdwest either didn't or couldn't.

If labor cost was the only problem with Midwest, why didn't Bedford try to keep the 717 and have RAH pilots fly it? 25 secured airframes is a lot easier to begin business with than sourcing E190's one by one from various owners and operators.

Midwest was broken. No one blames the pilots. You did everything you ought to have done to keep Midwest great. But that doesn't change the fact that the business model could not be fixed.

Midwest pilots are on the street because their business was coming apart, and because RAH pilots have a solid scope clause that prevents Midwest pilots from flying an RAH aircraft before integration. If the Midwest business was functional like Frontier, the Midwest pilots would still be flying 717's until the seniority integration, and most likely after, as well.

Everyone overlooks the fact that no F9 guys have been put on the street by RAH pilots. Just stop and think why, and then consider what makes F9 different from YX. RAH is a common denominator, but a common denominator that yields two wildly opposite outcomes can be considered irrelevant to the outcomes. RAH has treated both pilot groups with the same legal viewpoint. It stands to reason that the difference in status between Midwest pilots and Frontier pilots has to do with Frontier and Midwest themselves, not RAH.

There is no need for F9 pilots to "watch out", because no one is gunning for their jobs, just like no one is or was gunning for Midwest jobs. I don't blame Midwest guys for being upset. They are proud of their airline, and each of us has our judgment clouded by pride.

Were you working at Republic when the Shuttle America Saab captains were in training to be 170 captains? Do you remember Wayne Heller's, "No harm, no foul" letter? Were you with Chautauqua when the company fired every single Saab pilot that was still on probation to avoid retraining costs? The Republic recalls have less than a few months vested in the company. They are all at year 1 pay and ready to happily come back to work. Do you remember petition boy? Bedford has absolutely no respect for you contract what-so-ever. Your scope clause is just as worthless as every other part of it and just as worthless as mainline's. Like I said, you will find that out some day when you guys are not the cheapest anymore. I stand by that comment.

 

[Minimaniac]

Were you working at Republic when the Shuttle America Saab captains were in training to be 170 captains? Do you remember Wayne Heller's, "No harm, no foul" letter? Were you with Chautauqua when the company fired every single Saab pilot that was still on probation to avoid retraining costs? The Republic recalls have less than a few months vested in the company. They are all at year 1 pay and ready to happily come back to work. Do you remember petition boy? Bedford has absolutely no respect for you contract what-so-ever. Your scope clause is just as worthless as every other part of it and just as worthless as mainline's. Like I said, you will find that out some day when you guys are not the cheapest anymore. I stand by that comment.

We have not been the cheapest for some years now. The 170/175 costs more to operate than the CRJ-700 and -900. Our pay works out to be industry average for operators of 50, 70, and 86 seat regional jets. Some pay more, some pay less, but we are not the cheapest, and haven't been.

Oh, and those Saab pilots got their jobs back thanks to efforts by the union. But who is keeping track, right?

 

[likeitis]

No more of those GOD AWEFUL COOKIES!!!!!!! Now i understand why everyone from the midwest is "weight challenged." :laugh:

Oh man...anyway...I still say no more of those cookies though...they are really bad!

Oops, what was this thread about again? Oh, SLI yeah, whatever, we'll see.

Everyone huh? My BMI is 22.

 

[jravi8tor]

Everyone huh? My BMI is 22.

Would you believe that during my tenure at MEH I never once endulged in a chocolate chip cookie.

Oh, my BMI is 21

 

[ricj41]

Frontier is recalling 31 pilots by March. If Republic finds some very dirt cheap airbusses and buys them before a single list is done Frontier very well could hire off the street after our furloughs are recalled. Not saying that is going to happen but the only reason Republic bought us is to grow us.

 

[likeitis]

Would you believe that during my tenure at MEH I never once endulged in a chocolate chip cookie.

Oh, my BMI is 21

I only had them on occasion while non reving. Hopefully the US carriers go to a BMI requirement like much of Asia. The way these RAH guys seem to gobbleing down those cookies there is no way they will qualify.

 

[jravi8tor]

I only had them on occasion while non reving. Hopefully the US carriers go to a BMI requirement like much of Asia. The way these RAH guys seem to gobbleing down those cookies there is no way they will qualify.

Why we're at it, why don't US air carriers implement hiring standards for F/A's?

 

[SF340Guy]

Frontier is recalling 31 pilots by March. If Republic finds some very dirt cheap airbusses and buys them before a single list is done Frontier very well could hire off the street after our furloughs are recalled. Not saying that is going to happen but the only reason Republic bought us is to grow us.

That is awesome news. Also announced yesterday, RW, S5 and RP is recalling 96 of 104 furloughs in the next 6 months. Don't think that with our 10 USair 190s that we purchased and the 12 e145s for Midwest, that Frontier is the only portion of RAH that has schedule and route building in the plans.

You are correct, if RAH can find cheap 320s or 319s, or even 321s growth will be in the plans. Upgrades and movement would be great for the whole list. Hopefully we can recall our 300+ furloughed Midwest pilots soon, and everyone will be happy.

BTW... No matter what a street hire is flying, once the integration is complete, the furloughs would be senior to them, and their seats would be swapped out, so unless you are sitting on a couch somewhere, praying for a job, you would be stupid to come to RAH pre integration, and think you are keeping your job. Per the LAW, the lists were frozen as of the purchase date, and therefore, everyone hired before that will be senior to everyone hired after that, flying or not... Per the LAW.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Frontier is recalling 31 pilots by March. If Republic finds some very dirt cheap airbusses and buys them before a single list is done Frontier very well could hire off the street after our furloughs are recalled. Not saying that is going to happen but the only reason Republic bought us is to grow us.

Wow. Now you sound just like the Republic pilots. You do realize that you will eventually be under the Republic contract, right? Until a new contract is signed and after integration is complete, all of your first officers will be making $37/hour. Even if you are right, that's GREAT news that you guys get to grow even though the ENTIRE Midwest pilot group is furloughed. You are a perfect example of how pilots only care about themselves. Why should you care that the Midwest pilots are furloughed? F*ck em. As long as Frontier grows, you don't care. Then when you are flying for $37/hour as a first officer, the furloughed Midwest pilots will laugh at you. Thus the cycle repeats itself. There is no positive to this situation. A pilot group was f*cked. Any thing good that happens to Republic is now at the expense of the Midwest pilots. Ask the current Republic pilots how Bedford and company is handling all of their displacements. Do you think he is honoring the contract? My guess is hell no, but what do I know. He already proved to you that he will look you guys in the eye and lie his ass off.

 

[arjayeffo]

Hockeypilot, if ignorance is bliss, then you are without a doubt, the happiest m.f. on the planet.