Sleepy and his Source were WRONG

[General Lee]

Well, it is 12 Am here in ATL on Wednesday, and no word yet about a Chap 11 filing. Hmmm. Could it happen soon? I don't know, the analysts seem to think so. If we don't get a pilot concession TA soon---we will probably have to go that way. Oil prices are sky high, and this is the slow season. All of these things could point towards a court appointment, but the reason I wrote this thread is that SLEEPY AND HIS "SOURCE" WERE WRONG. Why did he post that? Why did he say without a doubt that we would file Monday or Tuesday (yesterday)? His title was certain---Delta Chap 11 today......


I am posting this to remind everyone that I think it is OK to post rumors, but it might be a good idea to say "possibly" or "might" in the title, instead of "WILL FILE CHAP 11 TODAY....... " If you are wrong, you and your source look like IDIOTS.


Then Sleepy says it will be "later this week....." It might be, but you and your source lost all credibility. I think the analysts predict a Chap 11 soon---but NONE have given a specific date. You and your source really DON'T know what is going on in the board room.


I honestly hope we don't file Chap 11, but it is out of my hands, and this now is all left up to management, the union, and creditors.......



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[OakRBust]

Call me now for yer free Tarot readin.


This board is what it is!!!!

 

[spinproof]

I am posting this to remind everyone that I think it is OK to post rumors, but it might be a good idea to say "possibly" or "might" in the title, instead of "WILL FILE CHAP 11 TODAY....... " If you are wrong, you and your source look like IDIOTS.


Then Sleepy says it will be "later this week....." It might be, but you and your source lost all credibility. I think the analysts predict a Chap 11 soon---but NONE have given a specific date. You and your source really DON'T know what is going on in the board room.
Bye Bye--General Lee

While I hope you are right and sleepy and his sources are wrong, to say one looks like an Idiot for saying so, would also apply to those making such comments before a reasonable period of time has passed.

 

[General Lee]

Spinproof,


Delta may very well file for Chap 11 eventually. I don't know if we will or will not. But, to cause a riot by saying that "Delta filing Chap 11 today...." as a title and then saying you have a source that confirms this---which later turns out to not be true----can make someone look like an idiot. It would have been more acceptable had he posted "possibly" or "might" in the title. When you are "that sure" and say it WILL happen---that can stir plenty of emotions in a lot of people.

I just thought that was idiotic, and so far his prediction is false---so far.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Well General, If it doesn't happen by the end of this week, I will admit that I was wrong. I have a pretty dood source at the DAL GO, and in the Atlanta legal community. They both tell me that it will happen this week. If you talk to people that work at the DAL GO you will hear the same thing. If you look at what the airline financial analyst are saying, it looks very possible this week.

Wait and see.

 

[TexaSWA]

Your source should be fired and brought up on charges. I can only imagine what they would think to find out that you are posting their "confidential" information on the internet.

 

[FDJ2]

If you look at what the airline financial analyst are saying, it looks very possible this week.

Wait and see.

I guess that explains the nearly 14% increase in DAL shares this morning. That is as we all know a tell tale sign of CH11 in the next few days.

 

[TonyC]

While I hope you are right and sleepy and his sources are wrong, to say one looks like an Idiot for saying so, would also apply to those making such comments before a reasonable period of time has passed.

Apparently, you don't think a reasonable period of time has elapsed. Take a look at sleepy's original claim, the post that began a thread of the same title:

DAL Bankruptcy Today...
At the close of the NYSE, or tomorrow. That is what my inside source tells me. All DAL executives have been arriving from all over the country today. Something big is about to happen.

OK, he said "today" on the 11th, and "tomorrow" would be the 12th. General Lee made his post at 00:09 EDT of the 13th.

How long do you think he should have waited to confirm that bankruptcy was NOT filed on the 11th or 12th? What would be reasonable, in your opinion?

​

 

[blzr]

Sleepy was incahoots with Dan Rather on this one.

 

[spinproof]

Apparently, you don't think a reasonable period of time has elapsed. Take a look at sleepy's original claim, the post that began a thread of the same title:


OK, he said "today" on the 11th, and "tomorrow" would be the 12th. General Lee made his post at 00:09 EDT of the 13th.

How long do you think he should have waited to confirm that bankruptcy was NOT filed on the 11th or 12th? What would be reasonable, in your opinion?

​

Quite frankly I would hope The General would be right and Sleepy and his "sources" wrong.That said usually these things happen at C.O.B. on Fridays....If not by this Friday I would say the reasonable time limit will have passed....although that's not to say it will /or won't happen eventually. In which case I'll slit my wrist but not before causing great harm to my broker for conviencing me to buy DAL stock @ 9 1/4......

 

[General Lee]

It still COULD happen Friday at COB---I don't know. If you read the article posted by FDJ2 from the Atlanta Journal Constitution, it has statements from the Delta spokesman (Kennedy) that we only have "weeks" to negotiate. Maybe he doesn't know what is going on either. It sounds like they are negotiating more "intensely" now---whatever that means....



My point of this thread was that Sleepy and his "Source" said that (in the title) Delta would file Chap 11 Mon or Tues. That was a bold statement that could have been peppered with a "maybe" or "possibly"---which would have allowed there to be more speculation involved. But no--Sleepy was certain---and WRONG. We all know he hated working for DCI--and now he and his source showed their true colors.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

My point of this thread was that Sleepy and his "Source" said that (in the title) Delta would file Chap 11 Mon or Tues.

General, you just need to break the code. The other day Sleepy stated that DAL was going to file Ch11 by COB on the 12th. That's code talk for buy DAL stock today. By COB on the 12th DAL stock soared nearly 20%.

You see General, Sleepy and his inside source at the G.O. can't be overt, for fear of attracting SEC attention, so they have to keep it on the down low and use code words.

 

[spinproof]

Speaking of breaking the code....Check the third paragraph..

http://www.thestreet.com/_fincon/stocks/transportation/10187597.html

 

[TonyC]

Quite frankly I would hope The General would be right and Sleepy and his "sources" wrong.

For crying out loud, how BOLD does a fact have to be before you'll accept it as fact, and hang up your hope?


A) sleepy said, on Monday, "DAL Bankruptcy Today... At the close of the NYSE, or tomorrow."

B) as of midnight on Tuesday, DAL had NOT filed bankruptcy

C) General Lee observed what sleepy proclaimed WOULD happen, did NOT happen

What exactly are you hoping for? I mean, in relation to General Lee's observation - - your personal stock portfolio is absolutely irrelevant. This requires no subjectivity at all - - it's as black and white as a piano keyboard.

General Lee is right - - sleepy was wrong. PERIOD.




It should be no wonder it's so hard to discuss meaningful topics with some people when it's so hard to accept simple facts as facts. There is no moral relativism involved here, just elementary observation and pure logic.

 

[Juvat]

pssst...

...I have a VERY good inside source who tells me that Sleepy isn't really a pilot. He just plays piano in a whore house.

 

[FDJ2]

Speaking of breaking the code....Check the third paragraph..

http://www.thestreet.com/_fincon/stocks/transportation/10187597.html

"Like other airline stocks, Delta appeared to receive a lift Wednesday from an early decline in oil prices, which was later erased.

But Delta also appeared to benefit from investor hopes the airline would cut a deal on labor concessions with its pilots. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Wednesday that negotiations were intensifying and noted the pilots union had delivered the company a new proposal on pay cuts. Karen Miller, a representative of the union, confirmed presentation of the new proposal, but declined to provide details. The union last offered concessions valued at about $705 million, but the airline is looking for $1 billion in pay cuts and other concessions. Delta shares gained 62 cents, or 19.8%, to $3.75 in trading volume about twice their daily average of 4.9 million."

I posted an article on the intense negotiations earlier. It's not the price of oil which appeared to drop before climbing, it's anticipation of a TA that is driving the stock. Actually DALPA and DAL were not wildly apart a couple of months ago and DAL apparently is in no extreme urgency to reduce labor costs considering the $1B take back from non contract employees won't kick in until 2005. You would figure that $1B is $1B regardless of where it came from, so apparently labor cuts aren't needed until 2005. Perhaps the delay in reaching a TA was used to leverage some debt relief from some creditors, I don't know.

My wild guess is that we will have a TA in the next couple of weeks, with a slight increase in pay reductions over the last DALPA proposal, some additional minor tweaking in work rules, the major scope change will be the Alaska code share approval and there will be an increase in sharing of medical costs by pilots. Both management and DALPA will declare that this is a billion dollar deal and DAL pilots will receive some sort of equity stake/profit sharing/snap back sweetner to close the deal. My best guess is that the ratification process will take us into December with implementation in January contingent on DAL's ability to restructure some of its debt. At least that's what Miss Cleo tells me.

 

[spinproof]

For crying out loud, how BOLD does a fact have to be before you'll accept it as fact, and hang up your hope?


A) sleepy said, on Monday, "DAL Bankruptcy Today... At the close of the NYSE, or tomorrow."

B) as of midnight on Tuesday, DAL had NOT filed bankruptcy

C) General Lee observed what sleepy proclaimed WOULD happen, did NOT happen

What exactly are you hoping for? I mean, in relation to General Lee's observation - - your personal stock portfolio is absolutely irrelevant. This requires no subjectivity at all - - it's as black and white as a piano keyboard.

General Lee is right - - sleepy was wrong. PERIOD.




It should be no wonder it's so hard to discuss meaningful topics with some people when it's so hard to accept simple facts as facts. There is no moral relativism involved here, just elementary observation and pure logic.

Spoken like a true Flight Engineer....only able to see whats "right in front on you !". As for my reference to DAL stock I own, while bankrupcy would virtually render it worthless, my intention was to bring a little levity to the thread...something you obviously know little about.

 

[TonyC]

Spoken like a true Flight Engineer....only able to see whats "right in front on you !".

If you intended that as an insult, you have failed miserably.

I find it a far more serious defect to NOT see what's right in front of you.

​

(You think it's reasonable to wait until COB Friday to determine that something did not happen on Tuesday? You need a job at a bank!)

.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy said his "Source" saw a lot of activity last Friday. Well, according to this article, the pilots made offered a concession deal last Friday, and I am sure the place was abuzz with activity. Apparently they are still negotiating on work rules and fine tuning things. But, even with concessions from the pilots, we still need to restructure the debt and leases to become successful. Atleast the blame will partially be off the pilots if a deal is made.......



Delta pilots offer a new contract proposal
Wed Oct 13, 2004 05:05 PM ET
NEW YORK, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) pilots, who have been negotiating a slew of employment issues with company management, have offered a new contract proposal that includes issues that haven't been discussed in more than two months, the pilot's union said on Wednesday.


"We did give management a counter on Friday night," said Karen Miller of the Air Line Pilots Association in an e-mailed statement. "We expect negotiations to continue this week.

"We've been exchanging proposals all along on work rules," Miller added. "The Friday proposal just included other issues that we haven't discussed since late July."

No further details were immediately available and Delta representatives were not immediately available to comment.

Investors saw the news as a positive for the stock since a new contract that reduced employment costs could help Delta avoid having to file for bankruptcy. Shares closed up 21 percent.

"There's speculation that the pilots may be willing to take some concessions rather than see the company go into bankruptcy and launch them out of a job," said Craig Hodges, a fund manager for Hodges Capital Management. Delta shares closed up 67 cents at $3.80.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

...I have a VERY good inside source who tells me that Sleepy isn't really a pilot. He just plays piano in a whore house.

Well at least that's a respectable profession. Yuck, Yuck