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Sleeping in the cockpit

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Edward Summer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Posts
51
Another question of curiousity...

Is is often that flight crews take "cat naps" while enroute (or during any other phase of flight) whether it be part 91, 121, 135?

I flown with guys and instructors who would fall asleep and I'd swear they were suffering from nacolepsy (sp?).

Thanks for any replies...
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ed
 
Never....

Often we have 16 and sometimes longer duty days specialy in International routes. Sleeping in the cockpit is not allowed. ;) We do often lay back and study the light patterns of the overhead during various degrees of eyelid closure. :p
 
Check out this site for more than you ever wanted to know about flying and sleep:

http://olias.arc.nasa.gov/zteam/

In one study on planned naps, the control group of long-haul pilots (who were told not to sleep) had several folks nod off despite being hooked up to all kinds of sensors and having two researchers watching.

T1bubba
 
I have never actually fallen asleep while I have been flying, but I will admit to watching the backs of my eyelids in a reclined position. I have seemed to get the timing just right because a couple of weeks ago early in the morning I decided to stop watching my eyelids 15 miles before my destination airport, after perfectly timing the eyelid watching for about 150 miles!!! Good thing I knew the approach freaq of the destanation airport.
 
Is is often that flight crews take "cat naps" while enroute (or during any other phase of flight) whether it be part 91, 121, 135?

I've seen it happen, from the comfort of a jumpseat. About two years ago I was jumpseating on a red eye flight out of Las Vegas. After climbout, the Captain looked over to the FO and said, "take 15 mins." and the FO reclined his seat back and proped his feet on the console and dozed off for a little bit.

After about 15mins, the FO woke back up, and the Captain took a short nap. I found it rather humorous. I had never seen it before. :cool:
 
Some aren't just sleeping. When I'm cleaning the overnight aircraft I find all types of literature in the cockpit. Everything from nudy magazines to the Times to Golf Digest. You name it, I've probably seen it. I can't blame them for sleeping or reading (hopefully that's all that is going on). While running the same route day in and day out things have to get old.
 
Sleep in the cockpit? Are you nuts?



Why sleep in the cockpit when you can go to the back and make a very comfy hammock out of a cargo net? If you're lucky, there will be just enough turbulence to set a rocking motion. This works nicely in DC-3s.
 
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I heard about a dude at Airnet this last summer was watching his inner eyelids a little too long. He finally decided he'd seen enough and opened em. Only to find out he'd overflown his destination by several miles. Ouch. It's a funny picture when you think about him snoozin away, cruisin' right smack dab through the middle of class B or C. Any starcheckers that can back this this up?
 
Ummm, yeeaa. (in the tone of "Office Space") It happened, and we have had one incident years ago when a PA-60 went in. Actually this recent one was about due since it had been a while since we had an "overflight".

It's surprising that it doesn't happen more often. Backside of the clock, 13-14 duty day with 5-8 hrs. of flying, mostly IFR, no autopilot, monotonous route, insidious drone of the engines, warm cabin from the heater (if it works) and probably not good rest the day before if you have a family. Red Bull should be company issued like charts;)
 
There I was

Sometimes you can not help it, I used fly these 11-12 hour patrols around Viet Nam day and night. The Navy would schedule you a day patrol, followed by crew rest, followed by a night patrol, you were always tired, especially at night. You were busy until you cleared the shipping lanes on the SE coast, then going around the west coast activity dropped to zero, nobody talking, no ATC, nothing going on at 0300 in the morning, so even though you don't want to, you nod off. This is on auto-pilot at 1,500', doing between 270-280 Kts, with an engine shut down to save gas. You wake up, you don't know if you have been out for 2 minutes or two hours, and every one on the airplane you can see is sleeping, the other pilot, FE, radio, Radar. Talk about getting wide awake all at once. That is why planned "cat naps" are better than unplanned naps.
 
I second the motion for going to the nasa site re' the research that they have done re' fatigue in aviation. I actually took their two-day course in Fatigue Countermeasures in Aviation at NASA Ames Research Center at Moffett Field in Ca.......Fascinating what they found out...

Of course, my airline squelched any material on this getting to the pilot group when I got back and that includes the strategies for dealing with fatigue.......too sensitive a subject for "regional" pilots busting their butts..........The company was afraid what might come of the information so it was never released even though I had written a program for recurrent classroom training for the pilot group based on this material.....

Just shows how concerned airline management can be when it comes to safety if it interferes with $$$$$........
 
Edward Summer said:
Another question of curiousity...
Aren't all questions "of curiosity?"

True story: This was prior to 9/11, when the F/A could come-and-go as she pleased between the cockpit and the cabin. Our hero heard the brand-spanking-new flight attendant unlocking the door and quickly told his first officer "pretend you're asleep." She finally opened the door and found them both "snoozing" away. What do you think she did?

Yup, she very slowly and quietly backed out of the cockpit and quietly shut the door!

Our hero had to call her back and tell her, "we were just pulling your leg, but if you ever see that for real, for Christ's sake, wake somebody up!"
 
Speaking of NASA, I just sighed up to be a volunteer in the latest sleep study. I guess they are going to outfit me with a wrist monitor and palm pilot and monitor my sleep paterns for about 40 days. Should be interesting!
 
this might just lead to a new thread

top ways for keeping yourself awake in the cockpit...
 
I've never fallen asleep in the cockpit but I often run pilot incapacitation exercises. Keeps everyone current on single pilot ops. Wouldn't want to let our skills lapse would we?
 
Sooo, The Captain says to the F/O "I'm going to take a nap, don't wake me unless it's an emergency............. And if it is an emergency, you da_m well had better not caused it!!!"

(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
 
"best ways to stay awake?"


Tune in some good ol' country on the ADF and sing your heart out. It also keeps the bird strikes at a minimum.. or turn off the heater.. Those are natural.

Theres a whole industry of trucker/cargo pilot over the counter's out there that'll keep you on your toes. Myself I prefer some good strong black coffee. To go along with the country music and no heat of course.
 
I know a bunch of guys who "dip" to keep alert, but since I like my teeth and gums I use sunflower seeds.

Something about not wanting to choke on a mouth full of seeds seems to keep me going:)

The best deal is to get good sleep, and remember if you are too tired to work CALL IN SICK!

Fly Smart!
 
mckpickle......

Semi-kidding on the anal probe.......During some of the long-haul carrier studies, the pilots were hooked up to the anal probes for temperature monitoring over the course of the flights. The goal was to see what the body was doing at the odd hours of the night while the pilots were flying. This was in addition to brain waves monitors and pulse recorders if my memory is correct.

While it has been a couple of years since I went to that course, I do remember a few things.....

1) Most of the countermeasures for fatigue that I remember were scheduling based and therefore not subject to pilot control. Of course, many of these strategies are simply ignored due to the fact that it might take some time, effort and money to implement scheduling consistencies.......i.e. working an early morning flight followed by a late night one the next night is not so good.

2) NASA advised regulated naps in the cockpit of not more than about 45 minutes......Much longer than that and you go into a deeper cycle of sleep that is more difficult to pull out of......45 minutes is enough to get some renewed energy without feeling groggy afterwards. I'm not aware of any carriers that have approved this policy formally.

3) No matter what you do, when your body has had enough it WILL sleep....the scariest part of the whole course was the discovery by NASA that some very fatigued pilots in their studies were UNINTENTIONALLY taking micro naps on final approach. These microsleeps only last a few seconds but these pilots were asleep on final.

NASA was able to determine the exact second someone nods off. There is no "falling asleep" in the sense that it is a gradual process. By measuring brain waves, they determined that you are either awake or asleep....there is no inbetween though there ARE various stages of sleep. They could plot the exact second the pilot(s) were awake then asleep.

In some of the long haul studies, they specifically asked some pilots to stay awake.....Now, with the NASA observers in the cockpit and with these guys hooked up to various sensors and probes, despite being told NOT to go to sleep, what NASA found was that once the body hits the wall, it doesn't matter......you're going to sleep whether you want to or realize it or not.

Interesting stuff........

Just don't be like the various crews over time that have been reported to have BOTH fallen asleep......Reminds me of one a 747-400 pilot told me.......On a 14+1/2 flight he had gone back to the crew bunk to sleep while the relief crew flew after he had flown the first few hours. After about 5 hours he got up to use the head and decided to peak in on the cockpit. Both the ca and fo were fast asleep and snoring up a storm. The senior ca stood there a while hoping to see someone at least roll their head and take a glance at the panel. After 10 or 15 minutes or so, the relief crew was still out..........The senior ca noticed those big ol' fire warning test buttons, reached out and hit all four at once. Apparently it was lucky that the relief crew were belted in 'cause they would have ejected themselves out the top of the airplane otherwise......

After chewing their butts, the senior ca had them go back and look at the face of every pax on the airplane and then go back to the cockpit and explain to him why, for their major airline 747-400 salaries, they couldn't stay awake for their shift.

Wonder if those guys ever fell asleep after that?????
 
Hmmmm.....let's see.....a Baron really doesn't have a cockpit...soooooo.......

nope....never done that.
 
After chewing their butts, the senior ca had them go back and look at the face of every pax on the airplane and then go back to the cockpit and explain to him why, for their major airline 747-400 salaries, they couldn't stay awake for their shift.

Riiiiiiggggght! I'm sure that's exactly what happened!

:rolleyes:

Wonder if those guys ever fell asleep after that?????

Probably!
 
TwinTails said:
"best ways to stay awake?"

Theres a whole industry of trucker/cargo pilot over the counter's out there that'll keep you on your toes.

A word to the wise regarding OTC ephedrine hydrocloride; do NOT use that stuff for more than six (6) hours if you've got a date planned after arrival... **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** embarassing when the meter doesn't work. :rolleyes:
 
abenaki said:
mckpickle......

Semi-kidding on the anal probe.......During some of the long-haul carrier studies, the pilots were hooked up to the anal probes for temperature monitoring over the course of the flights. The goal was to see what the body was doing at the odd hours of the night while the pilots were flying. This was in addition to brain waves monitors and pulse recorders if my memory is correct.

While it has been a couple of years since I went to that course, I do remember a few things.....

1) Most of the countermeasures for fatigue that I remember were scheduling based and therefore not subject to pilot control. Of course, many of these strategies are simply ignored due to the fact that it might take some time, effort and money to implement scheduling consistencies.......i.e. working an early morning flight followed by a late night one the next night is not so good.

2) NASA advised regulated naps in the cockpit of not more than about 45 minutes......Much longer than that and you go into a deeper cycle of sleep that is more difficult to pull out of......45 minutes is enough to get some renewed energy without feeling groggy afterwards. I'm not aware of any carriers that have approved this policy formally.

3) No matter what you do, when your body has had enough it WILL sleep....the scariest part of the whole course was the discovery by NASA that some very fatigued pilots in their studies were UNINTENTIONALLY taking micro naps on final approach. These microsleeps only last a few seconds but these pilots were asleep on final.

NASA was able to determine the exact second someone nods off. There is no "falling asleep" in the sense that it is a gradual process. By measuring brain waves, they determined that you are either awake or asleep....there is no inbetween though there ARE various stages of sleep. They could plot the exact second the pilot(s) were awake then asleep.

In some of the long haul studies, they specifically asked some pilots to stay awake.....Now, with the NASA observers in the cockpit and with these guys hooked up to various sensors and probes, despite being told NOT to go to sleep, what NASA found was that once the body hits the wall, it doesn't matter......you're going to sleep whether you want to or realize it or not.

Interesting stuff........

Just don't be like the various crews over time that have been reported to have BOTH fallen asleep......Reminds me of one a 747-400 pilot told me.......On a 14+1/2 flight he had gone back to the crew bunk to sleep while the relief crew flew after he had flown the first few hours. After about 5 hours he got up to use the head and decided to peak in on the cockpit. Both the ca and fo were fast asleep and snoring up a storm. The senior ca stood there a while hoping to see someone at least roll their head and take a glance at the panel. After 10 or 15 minutes or so, the relief crew was still out..........The senior ca noticed those big ol' fire warning test buttons, reached out and hit all four at once. Apparently it was lucky that the relief crew were belted in 'cause they would have ejected themselves out the top of the airplane otherwise......

After chewing their butts, the senior ca had them go back and look at the face of every pax on the airplane and then go back to the cockpit and explain to him why, for their major airline 747-400 salaries, they couldn't stay awake for their shift.

Wonder if those guys ever fell asleep after that?????


Great info, I am looking forward to the NASA study, and I hope this will be without the probe. I will leave that to schedualing and terrorists.
 

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