SkyWest voted no ALPA

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Jack London also promoted a socialists society. Hardly a role model.

Speaking of undercutting, I wonder what he'd have to say about buying your job and paying for training?

PCL any help here ?

Your user name suggests female....

If you decided to have a baby would you like three years off with your job secure when you came back... or do you like the 6 weeks... plus some FMLA...?

Simply put the Skywest pilots think market forces are fine.... they want to buffer zone, no protection...

unions are democratic protection zones... they are articfical counter forces to market forces.. unions don't control market forces but yet many think they do or should...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Skywest pilots do not need any ALPA merger policy in the way of their next acquisition. Skywest has $500M ready to use. ALPA would just mess it up.

Screw ALPA before they screw you. Ask the US Air guys what they think of ALPA merger policy.

Expectations not being met?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ASA better make sure that the wording of the scope against the parents company is airtight. If not the his just given SKW the green light to whipsaw the heck out of these two groups.
Best of luck. You will all need it.

 

[JohnQ]

Jack London called anyone who under cut another a scab. If two vendors sold a product on a street and one intentionally sold for less he was a scab...




http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/2554/

Well if Jack London stated that then he was plain wrong (though I love his "Ode to a SCAB"). A scab is one thing and one thing only: a worker who performs struck work in defiance of the union's legal order to strike.

His "intentionally sold for less is a scab" accusation (if true) is ludicrous. Using that logic, we should all still be paying $400 for basic calculators that only do the four basic math functions--after all, no vendor should ever "undercut" their rivals with cheaper, more functional products, right? Or we should still pay $50 for ballpoint pens! Etc. etc. a million times over. That kind of thinking comes right out of Das Kapital, but shouldn't be even contemplated in a capitalist society.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Firstly, he didn't say "should never be hired."

Further, one can't throw out the baby with the bathwater, as nobody knows who the 65% are. And it's difficult to broach such a subject in an interview, so the point is really quite moot.

But imagine yourself looking across the table at a pilot applicant, and there's a 65% chance he just told your union to get bent. How can there be any expectation of future unity? This guy is going to stand shoulder to shoulder with you on a picket line on a 0 degree day? It's difficult to picture.

Clever, classy name calling, by the way.

Card,
It's quite simple, implore ALPA national to have the SKYW OC list at a phone number that a hiring committee member can call as soon as he sees SKYW pilot on the application. A quick smoke break or trip to the head and dial will tell you who you are dealing with, name on list, interview away, not on list ?????, decide for him/her self. I agree ALPA is not perfect, but the alternative is far worse than any lacking ALPA national may have. Do you really want someone who is only out for himself and quite clueless on how to achieve that goal. ALPA is the vehicle that every single member can make sure that they get the very best deal personally. If we bargain together, we bargain from a position of strength, individually, management and their billion in the bank will preserve their position, and most likely better it.
PBR

 

[capt. megadeth]

Uh huh....And should you go to work for Frontier, you are directly helping management undercut fellow WN pilots by having less than Greyhound fares from Denver to Hartford, Oklahoma, Omaha, St. Louis, and Tulsa.

The words Southwest Airlines and predatory pricing are synonymous so WTF are you talking about?

Southwest is KING of undercutting....it's about time someone beats them at their own game.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well if Jack London stated that then he was plain wrong (though I love his "Ode to a SCAB"). A scab is one thing and one thing only: a worker who performs struck work in defiance of the union's legal order to strike.

His "intentionally sold for less is a scab" accusation (if true) is ludicrous. Using that logic, we should all still be paying $400 for basic calculators that only do the four basic math functions--after all, no vendor should ever "undercut" their rivals with cheaper, more functional products, right? Or we should still pay $50 for ballpoint pens! Etc. etc. a million times over. That kind of thinking comes right out of Das Kapital, but shouldn't be even contemplated in a capitalist society.

Thus.... companies should compete... not labor...

and yet that is what companies what us to do...

 

[120% Torque]

The major airline MEC's need to negotiate with their individual companies a policy that non Alpa airline pilots do not qualify for interviews. I guarentee the Skywests and Colgan weenies would then think a little harder on how they approach this issue.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA is currently working on fixing the FMLA law so that pilots and FA's will be included... another free ride for the SKYW and Colganites...

 

[capt. megadeth]

The major airline MEC's need to negotiate with their individual companies a policy that non Alpa airline pilots do not qualify for interviews. I guarentee the Skywests and Colgan weenies would then think a little harder on how they approach this issue.

I see your point however, people need to remember that there are people at these airlines that voted FOR the union.....you cannot screw them because the majority are bafoons.

 

[capt. megadeth]

ALPA is currently working on fixing the FMLA law so that pilots and FA's will be included... another free ride for the SKYW and Colganites...

What's this all about (ie. I thought all employees had a right to 12 weeks FMLA)????

 

[cactusboy53]

lucky;
The ALPA Merger policy has not changed for many years. The term "date of hire" has been absent since the last change. If you didn't like it, you should have attempted a change of union THEN or a change of the merger policy.

More to the point, it was decided in BINDING ARBITRATION.

 

[cactusboy53]

Done.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What's this all about (ie. I thought all employees had a right to 12 weeks FMLA)????

On paper yes... but airlines have found a way to deny FMLA to pilots and FA's Mega. (FYI.. FA's are crew members that serve passengers on passenger carrying aircraft.. )

Workers must have worked 1250 hours (60% of a fulltime schedule based on 9 to 5 work week)...

However companies only count flight time... not duty time... so time spent on RSV or between flights doesn't count...

Many crews who have real familiy needs such as babies born, injuries etc are denied cause of this...

ALPA will probably get Congress to change the law and the SKYW pilots will of course benefit all while giving ALPA the finger...

 

[capt. megadeth]

Uh oh....don't tell UPS management about this.....

On paper yes... but airlines have found a way to deny FMLA to pilots and FA's Mega. (FYI.. FA's are crew members that serve passengers on passenger carrying aircraft.. )

Workers must have worked 1250 hours (60% of a fulltime schedule based on 9 to 5 work week)...

However companies only count flight time... not duty time... so time spent on RSV or between flights doesn't count...

Many crews who have real familiy needs such as babies born, injuries etc are denied cause of this...

ALPA will probably get Congress to change the law and the SKYW pilots will of course benefit all while giving ALPA the finger...

 

[Widow's Son]

The best thing for ALPA and all airlines would be for ALPA to focus exclusively on legacy airlines, and quit the facade of being everything to everyone. Everyone else should be represented by various associations unique to their niche, and all of the unions could have a CAPA type association for matters of mutual interest. ALPA trying to be everyones union bogs it down in conflicting interests and weakens its power and influence to all.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Can ALPA please do anything about the horrible ramp employees at PHL?

 

[Hawker dude]

On paper yes... but airlines have found a way to deny FMLA to pilots and FA's Mega. (FYI.. FA's are crew members that serve passengers on passenger carrying aircraft.. )

Workers must have worked 1250 hours (60% of a fulltime schedule based on 9 to 5 work week)...

However companies only count flight time... not duty time... so time spent on RSV or between flights doesn't count...

Many crews who have real familiy needs such as babies born, injuries etc are denied cause of this...

ALPA will probably get Congress to change the law and the SKYW pilots will of course benefit all while giving ALPA the finger...

I've worked for both ALPA and Teamsters.

I never got denied FMLA. It was negotiated in our contracts to go by Duty Time.

Why would they bother congress with this when we already have it in the contracts?

Non union loser.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I've worked for both ALPA and Teamsters.

I never got denied FMLA. It was negotiated in our contracts to go by Duty Time.

Why would they bother congress with this when we already have it in the contracts?

Non union loser.

Because other pilots and FAs are having this problem. It is not about you. It is about all of us... but if you need a reason.. then you don't want your company to see how other comapnies are gaming the law and decide to make changes....

 

[rtmcfi]

Skywest pilots do not need any ALPA merger policy in the way of their next acquisition. Skywest has $500M ready to use. ALPA would just mess it up.

Screw ALPA before they screw you. Ask the US Air guys what they think of ALPA merger policy.

And how much of the $500m would SkyWest part with to see that the SkyWest pilots get a fair shake in a merger?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The infamous 66% KLUB?

 

[Damich]

...................

 

[platinumclub]

Last time I check a 744 carried about 100 more pax than a 772? Why is does everyone have their panties in a bunch over SkyWest who pays their pilots more to fly the larger RJ's? I think it's time to look at mainline. Last time I check, a 757 type came with the 767.

Well we feel the same way as you do when Skybus captains fly 130-150 people for 65k.

Skywest pilots fly the 700-900 aircraft for pretty much 50 seat rates. Thanks for justifing to SKYWEST magt. that I need a pay cut or they will just transfer aircraft to Skywest.

Skywest pilots have what they do because of us! Your welcome from ASA and Comair ALPA guys !

 

[PCL_128]

I've worked for both ALPA and Teamsters.

I never got denied FMLA. It was negotiated in our contracts to go by Duty Time.

Why would they bother congress with this when we already have it in the contracts?

Non union loser.

A few airlines have decided to interpret this law differently than the original intent. Alaska is one of them. Alaska has been denying pilots FMLA leave for quite some time now. Most contracts simply state that the company is bound to the FMLA laws as written on the date of signing. The contracts don't actually specify how to interpret that law. If yours does, then your contract is the exception to the rule. So, with the interpretation in dispute by certain airlines, then it's up to ALPA to get congress to change the law to clarify the intent.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

The major airline MEC's need to negotiate with their individual companies a policy that non Alpa airline pilots do not qualify for interviews. I guarentee the Skywests and Colgan weenies would then think a little harder on how they approach this issue.

Here's a suggestion.
Some of the Skywest pilots have documentation of a yes vote if they voted with their cell phone. If the right number shows up on their bill at the right time then you know they voted. After all, SAPA/management told the pilots that the best way to vote no was not to call at all. Might be a good way to identify some but not all of the pro-union guys. It would suck to see the 1/3 who voted get grouped together with all the other losers.

 

[Cardinal]

Last time I check a 744 carried about 100 more pax than a 772? Why is does everyone have their panties in a bunch over SkyWest who pays their pilots more to fly the larger RJ's? I think it's time to look at mainline. Last time I check, a 757 type came with the 767.

And a 757 comes with different pay rates than an 767. Take CAL who flies the two types as a common fleet, each aircraft pays differently. "Soft Time" for training, vaca, and the like is based on a blended rate computed on the number of aircraft in each fleet.

Your 772/744 example, the only US carrier that matches is United, who pays a single "widebody" rate for both aircraft. That rate is calculated with the knowledge that the 74 is bigger, for negotiation purposes a sort of blend is figured. UA's 777s vary in capacity, but on average they have 84% as many seats as their 744. The next step of capacity reduction, to the 767, is about 83%, and one finds a new payscale.

The 50 seat RJ has only 67% as many seats, and the rate for that aircraft was not negotiated with larger aircraft in view. Heck, it wasn't negotiated at all, just imposed with a member vote for eyewash purposes. Much like putting a dummy temperature knob in front of an FA, it makes 'em feel content.

Saying that mainline doesn't consider aircraft size in the way SkyWest did is preposterous.

 

[indianboy7]

Uh oh....don't tell UPS management about this.....

or Skywest management for that matter........

 

[captain007]

I think the 65% of skywest pilots that voted it down, don't want to go to a major. They want to make skywest their career. At least thats what I hear from most. I think its safe to say 65% of the skywest group are not appling anywhere else.

 

[btrthn5n5]

And a 757 comes with different pay rates than an 767. Take CAL who flies the two types as a common fleet, each aircraft pays differently. "Soft Time" for training, vaca, and the like is based on a blended rate computed on the number of aircraft in each fleet.

Your 772/744 example, the only US carrier that matches is United, who pays a single "widebody" rate for both aircraft. That rate is calculated with the knowledge that the 74 is bigger, for negotiation purposes a sort of blend is figured. UA's 777s vary in capacity, but on average they have 84% as many seats as their 744. The next step of capacity reduction, to the 767, is about 83%, and one finds a new payscale.

The 50 seat RJ has only 67% as many seats, and the rate for that aircraft was not negotiated with larger aircraft in view. Heck, it wasn't negotiated at all, just imposed with a member vote for eyewash purposes. Much like putting a dummy temperature knob in front of an FA, it makes 'em feel content.

Saying that mainline doesn't consider aircraft size in the way SkyWest did is preposterous.

Whew... Lots of math. Too much for a lowly SkyWest pilot.

I know that I get paid a 66-76 rate with the BHO that is bigger than what I get paid if I fly the 50 seater. Sounds close to every regional out there... only my pay rate is bigger than 3/4's of the other regionals.

Our 99+ seat pay rates are not bad at all either.

We have been losing bids to ExpressJet and Republic... I SAY THEY ARE UNDERCUTTING US!!

Let NO MAJOR AIRLINE EVER HIRE A REGIONAL PILOT!! They fly the old 737 routes on their barbie little RJ's for less pay and fuel burn!!
The majors (ALPA unionized and all others) should only hire flight instructors that have never flown for an airline that has ever "competed with", parked at an gate that they used to park at, or ever been painted like their airplane with "express/connection/connect/etc" painted on the side.

That is the only fair solution!! Whine away! And pull your heads out! We all look out for our careers, and the careers of all pilots whether they are union or not. It is just some of us are smart enough to see the big picture and not just what we read in ALPA's magazine. ALPA is a sinking ship... GOOD RIDDANCE to all who ride it down.

P.S.--- STOP with the SCAB talk. It makes you sound like an idiot!

I know a few United furloughs who are working at Southwest now. Flying the same airplane on the same routes for MORE PAY for a rival airline without United's union. They are undercutting their "brothers"!! SCABS!!! WE MUST UNITE!!

Idiots.. Look at the big picture. Unity is key... the ALPA business is not.

 

[btrthn5n5]

Uneducated rant over...