SkyWest Vote

[sweptback]

Few, if any unionized regionals do get profit sharing.

Which ones do by the way?

Just off the top of my head: ASA, XJT, RAH, CAL. I'm sure there's more.

 

[airksk]

AirKSK probably thinks he elects the President too.

Aww, come on, just because your skywest opinion poll doesn't matter, don't kill my dream of hand selecting the next president!

 

[buscap]

The Skywest pilots voting on anything, reminds me of those old ladies in Iraq signing their votes for Hussein in blood.

The votes were meaningless in both cases.

But I do have some respect for the old ladies.

At least they had a gun to their heads.

As a group the Skywest pilots are just a bunch of shortsighted idiots.

 

[Flyerdan]

I do wonder why we vote for a pay raise at SkyWest. I guess it's because of the RLA. I could see where a pay rate could be based upon experience as opposed to seniority, or some other method. Perhaps even based on individual one-on-one negotiations like in many other industries. I think the bottom line is that SkyWest pilots vote their approval of pay & QOL policies through their continued willingness to stay at SkyWest.

 

[RP170]

I voted yes for the New-Hires.

If you voted "no", the insanely low first year pay rates would most likely be raised significantly if Skywest couldn't fill new-hire classes.

There is a pilot shortage. I don't understand why pilot groups aren't using this to their advantage for better pay raises than a dollar here or there.

I guess you don't have any leverage without a union though.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I do wonder why we vote for a pay raise at SkyWest. I guess it's because of the RLA. I could see where a pay rate could be based upon experience as opposed to seniority, or some other method. Perhaps even based on individual one-on-one negotiations like in many other industries. I think the bottom line is that SkyWest pilots vote their approval of pay & QOL policies through their continued willingness to stay at SkyWest.

I voted no, I am hoping for a package that takes from the stupid 2nd year SIC types. My 77.00+ per hour need enhancment, and since we are "everyman for himself" I want a slice of stupiddans small pie, couple a bucks would be nice, he wont miss it!
PBR

 

[JoeMerchant]

The Skywest pilots voting on anything, reminds me of those old ladies in Iraq signing their votes for Hussein in blood.

The votes were meaningless in both cases.

But I do have some respect for the old ladies.

At least they had a gun to their heads.

As a group the Skywest pilots are just a bunch of shortsighted idiots.

...... nawww... the idiots are those of us who send 1.95% of our pay to Herndon and actually believe it gives us leverage in the portfolio whipsaw that Herndon actually helped create with management....

At least the SAPA extended the longevity to 20 years for the senior folks.....what did the senior folks at ASA get?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

...... nawww... the idiots are those of us who send 1.95% of our pay to Herndon and actually believe it gives us leverage in the portfolio whipsaw that Herndon actually helped create with management....

At least the SAPA extended the longevity to 20 years for the senior folks.....what did the senior folks at ASA get?

I think the answer is : large retro/signing bonus checks, that we didn't get!!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think the answer is : large retro/signing bonus checks, that we didn't get!!!

....it didn't even make up for the lost wages if we had taken the CMR rates in 2002.....much less the lost 401k contributions....not to mention most of it was weighted towards time served during negotiations.....which means a 6 year captain got almost as much as an 18 year captain, even though the 18 year captain lost more during those years....

.....the senior folks got the shaft.....we are a minority and the minority always get's the shaft with ALPA.......

Edit: Gr82Aviate, I just realized you are a Skywest pilot (I think)..... the senior 700 captains, after 5+ years of negiations got a $1/hr raise, with no additional vacation. Horizon gets about $20/hr more for the 700.... The problem isn't whether or not you are ALPA/Teamsters/GDI.... it is about whether or not you are competing for the flying....

It wasn't Skywest rates that brought the 700 down...... It was our fellow ALPA brothers at Mesa, PCL, Mesaba, and Mainline that brought the "curve" down......

ALPA can regain credibility if it can stop the competition within a brand..... until then it is is just a bunch of empty chest-thumping.....

Joe
(14 year ALPA member)

 

[Gr82Aviate]

....it didn't even make up for the lost wages if we had taken the CMR rates in 2002.....much less the lost 401k contributions....not to mention most of it was weighted towards time served during negotiations.....which means a 6 year captain got almost as much as an 18 year captain, even though the 18 year captain lost more during those years....

.....the senior folks got the shaft.....we are a minority and the minority always get's the shaft with ALPA.......

Edit: Gr82Aviate, I just realized you are a Skywest pilot (I think)..... the senior 700 captains, after 5+ years of negiations got a $1/hr raise, with no additional vacation. Horizon gets about $20/hr more for the 700.... The problem isn't whether or not you are ALPA/Teamsters/GDI.... it is about whether or not you are competing for the flying....

It wasn't Skywest rates that brought the 700 down...... It was our fellow ALPA brothers at Mesa, PCL, Mesaba, and Mainline that brought the "curve" down......

ALPA can regain credibility if it can stop the competition within a brand..... until then it is is just a bunch of empty chest-thumping.....

Joe
(14 year ALPA member)

If it makes you feel any better, we didn't get any addtional vacation either...and I'm pretty sure ASA is better in that department already anyway!

 

[JoeMerchant]

If it makes you feel any better, we didn't get any addtional vacation either...and I'm pretty sure ASA is better in that department already anyway!

I doubt it..... we get 4 weeks after 15 years....what's yours?

It doesn't make me feel any better, but despite what the ALPA koolaid salesmen tell you, there isn't much difference, especially for us senior "lifers".....

The 700 rates were depressed because of downward pressure from OTHER ALPA CARRIERS......not from you guys at Skywest.....

There are some good things about ALPA, but collective bargaining isn't one of them..... they forgot the meaning of "collective"....

Competition within a brand will trump ALPA membership every time.......

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I doubt it..... we get 4 weeks after 15 years....what's yours?

It doesn't make me feel any better, but despite what the ALPA koolaid salesmen tell you, there isn't much difference, especially for us senior "lifers".....

The 700 rates were depressed because of downward pressure from OTHER ALPA CARRIERS......not from you guys at Skywest.....

There are some good things about ALPA, but collective bargaining isn't one of them..... they forgot the meaning of "collective"....

Competition within a brand will trump ALPA membership every time.......

You get the same amount of vacation that I do after 2 and a quarter decades...

 

[JoeMerchant]

You get the same amount of vacation that I do after 2 and a quarter decades...

4 weeks at Skywest doesn't start until after 22 years? Just to clarify, an ASA pilot after "2 and a quarter decades" also only gets 4 weeks..... even with ALPA.....

 

[Gr82Aviate]

4 weeks at Skywest doesn't start until after 22 years? Just to clarify, an ASA pilot after "2 and a quarter decades" also only gets 4 weeks..... even with ALPA.....

They use a formula that they multiply times your flight hour credit, and it capped out several years ago for me.

 

[JoeMerchant]

They use a formula that they multiply times your flight hour credit, and it capped out several years ago for me.

It caps out at ASA after 15 years..... When does it cap out for Skywest pilots?

 

[Nevets]

Something to think about Skywesties:

Compare your pay: If it's within 2% less per hour than the other top regionals, you're ahead of the game. Because you don't pay union dues, and you get profit sharing. Few, if any unionized regionals do get profit sharing.

Which ones do by the way?

In any case, my hat is off to you and your Mitt loving St. George management. For 2008 and beyond, you're the best coat-tailers in the nation!

Not all pilots pay 1.95%. Probationary pilots (one year or more) pay ZERO dues. Non-members pay nothing or a shop fee of 1.45% depending on their MEC policy. Also, 100% of dues are tax deductable which means that for the pilots that do pay dues, their effective dues rate is actually less than 1.95%. Its not a straight apples to apples comparison.

And the 1.95% gets you a whole lot more than negotiating power.

ExpressJet has a profit sharing program for pilots in the contract. If the profit sharing is canceled, pay rates are increased 3%.

 

[Nevets]

...... nawww... the idiots are those of us who send 1.95% of our pay to Herndon and actually believe it gives us leverage in the portfolio whipsaw that Herndon actually helped create with management....

At least the SAPA extended the longevity to 20 years for the senior folks.....what did the senior folks at ASA get?

Just curious, why do you keep paying dues?

 

[Nevets]

The 700 rates were depressed because of downward pressure from OTHER ALPA CARRIERS......not from you guys at Skywest.....

You can make this argument but an argument can also be made that Skywest could have mitigated that downward pressure if only they were organized by virtue of their success. Now they are only relegated to getting just below ASA rates.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Just curious, why do you keep paying dues?

......funny you should ask that....

I was on the ALPA negotiating committee that negotiated Agency Shop...... which requires that I pay dues.....You see I am a reformed ALPA koolaid drinker.....

Because of language that I helped negotiate, I can be fired if I don't pay...... Kinda ironic........

 

[JoeMerchant]

You can make this argument but an argument can also be made that Skywest could have mitigated that downward pressure if only they were organized by virtue of their success. Now they are only relegated to getting just below ASA rates.

Not really..... the big downward pressure came from ALPA carriers, including mainline carriers..... The Skywest pilots are some of the highest paid regional pilots out there.....

In fact, in 1998, we used Skywest pay to negotiate higher pay and workrules at ASA.....

Don't believe all the ALPA koolaid....

 

[Nevets]

Not really..... the big downward pressure came from ALPA carriers, including mainline carriers..... The Skywest pilots are some of the highest paid regional pilots out there.....

In fact, in 1998, we used Skywest pay to negotiate higher pay and workrules at ASA.....

Don't believe all the ALPA koolaid....

Like I said, you can make that argument. But what I'm saying is that with $750 million in the bank and making $150 million a year, they should be getting better pay and work rules than they currently have. That would mitigate the downward pressure. Currently they are not able to do that.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Like I said, you can make that argument. But what I'm saying is that with $750 million in the bank and making $150 million a year, they should be getting better pay and work rules than they currently have. That would mitigate the downward pressure. Currently they are not able to do that.

Inc. will probably be making more than $150,000,000.00 this year...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Like I said, you can make that argument. But what I'm saying is that with $750 million in the bank and making $150 million a year, they should be getting better pay and work rules than they currently have. That would mitigate the downward pressure. Currently they are not able to do that.

1. The downward pressure isn't coming from Skywest.....It is coming from ALPA carriers....

2. The more money Skywest Inc. makes, the more profit sharing and the more the company grows.... That is good for those of us who work here....Maybe not so much for everyone else.....

3. The "downward pressure" gets mitigated when ALPA comes up with "Brand Scope".... not by Skywest pilots joining ALPA......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Inc. is making more than $150,000,000.00 a year...!

....they made 150 million last year...... where are you getting your info from?

 

[Nevets]

1. The downward pressure isn't coming from Skywest.....It is coming from ALPA carriers....

2. The more money Skywest Inc. makes, the more profit sharing and the more the company grows.... That is good for those of us who work here....Maybe not so much for everyone else.....

3. The "downward pressure" gets mitigated when ALPA comes up with "Brand Scope".... not by Skywest pilots joining ALPA......

Once again, you can make the argument that other ALPA carriers put "downward pressure." What Im saying is that Skywest can help mitigate that but they currently are only able to vote for pay rates that are just below ASA's. Other ALPA cariers have profit sharing as well. You can have both profit sharing and an industry leading contract.

 

[Nevets]

....they made 150 million last year...... where are you getting your info from?

I think I saw it on some financial filing. It may be closer to $145 million for 2006.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Once again, you can make the argument that other ALPA carriers put "downward pressure." What Im saying is that Skywest can help mitigate that but they currently are only able to vote for pay rates that are just below ASA's. Other ALPA cariers have profit sharing as well. You can have both profit sharing and an industry leading contract.

Without "brand scope", I don't want to "set the bar", or "be at the top", or be "the FDX of the regionals".... That will only result in us being the next XJT, ACA, CMR, ALG, or CCAir......

As it is, ASA and SKYW are near the top.... We don't need to push the envelope......

We need ALPA to act like a true union, and stop the whipsaw within a brand.... We need the mainline carriers to stop putting downward pressure on wages.....

I for one am not looking to be a "hero" in the regional fight..... Highest pay results in a target on the back.......

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think I saw it on some financial filing. It may be closer to $145 million for 2006.

Your correct. I was questioning Gr82Aviate's numbers....

 

[Nevets]

Without "brand scope", I don't want to "set the bar", or "be at the top", or be "the FDX of the regionals".... That will only result in us being the next XJT, ACA, CMR, ALG, or CCAir......

As it is, ASA and SKYW are near the top.... We don't need to push the envelope......

We need ALPA to act like a true union, and stop the whipsaw within a brand.... We need the mainline carriers to stop putting downward pressure on wages.....

I for one am not looking to be a "hero" in the regional fight..... Highest pay results in a target on the back.......

Are you suggesting then that the "brand scope" problem be fixed and then try to become the "hero?"

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Your correct. I was questioning Gr82Aviate's numbers....

I was talking about what they'll be making this year...looks like it will probably increase quite a bit!