Skywest Union Vote

[MYFpilot]

Even Gulfstream is Union.

Now there's a good union. Make all the FO's PFT and pay union dues as-well. Sounds great, where do I sign up???????????????????????????

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Care to explain the situation when your management arbitrarily decided to stop paying new hires in training? Are you suggesting that you guys agreed to that? What will they decide to change next?

Frankly, I wasn't paid either five years ago, that's just the way some things go. That actually changes with the ebb and the flow of the industry, I expect it will change again when we have trouble filling classes. We looked at trying to change that, SAPA did actually, but it was reasoned that new-hires don't fall within the scope an employee group. Kind of like a probation thing. That should probably be fixed I would think.

I find it funny that Skywest gets attacked for being non union, free loaders and touted as ruining the industry. The loudest complaints usually come from SOMEBODY WHO PAID FOR THEIR JOB! COtEX, Comair, Gulfstream and others... I actually find it funny. I literally sit by myself and laugh out loud. My shrink isn't that amused though.

But you know what, and this is the honest truth... so what? We all do what we have to do, and let me let some of you into a little secret. THERE IS NO AVIATION BROTHER OR SISTERHOOD. There are issues to be dealt with... but you deal with yours, we'll deal with ours. I don't give a flying duck what the guys and gals at COtEX or Eagle do with their union dues, so nobody should care that I don't pay any. IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

 

[bayoubandit]

You should care! It's those guys paying union dues that are most likely going to set new pay rates at Skywest. Sad I have to work with guys like you.

We made it their problem when the vote passed to fly 50-70-90 seats at the same rate. Dumb then, dumb now.

New hire pay shouldn't be fixed, it MUST!

 

[Splert]

Right now schedules and QOL are impaired due to the schedules demanded by the codeshare partners

BS. That excuse is just SAPA/SGU cool aid.

Our schedules suck because we don't have the Trip Rigs that protect us from suck a$$ schedules.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The 2:1 duty rig still costs SGU money. Noone is making the company money sitting in the crew lounge. Utilization is less than it used to be. A trip rig would result in crews making more money but I'm not sure it would fix the schedules.

 

[Caveman]

ExFokkerFlyer,

I agree the Skywest pilots can agree to whatever they want but, like it or not, whatever one group agrees to has an effect on what other groups can achieve. I also find it ironic that you guys are claiming to be independent and free spirits and all that but you rely on others to set your pays rates for you.

You can rationalize the new hire pay situation any way you want but the cold hard truth is you guys had no say in the matter. That's my real point. I'm not suggesting that you guys have to be ALPA but it's time you joined the party and got yourself a collective bargaining agreement that is legally binding.

I do resent that your pay is based soley on what the highest paid similar carrier is being paid. Unless you are participating in the processs to help improve things you guys are nothing but freeloaders. If just once you guys could get your management to make you the highest paid pilot group all this criticism would disappear. With or without a contract the perception that you guys are living large off of other people's hard efforts would diminish significantly. Get off the bench and take your turn at bat.

I have more respect for CHQ pilots. While their contract may or may not live up to my standard they at least took their turn and tried to raise the bar. I know a lot of folks aren't real happy with the outcome but it was a tough time econmically to be negotiating and they did get significant improvements in most areas of their contract. They didn't sit back and say we'll take whatever Skywest gets, or Comair, or whomever. They participated in the process.

 

[nimtz]

nimtz-

Well obviously the SkyWest pilot group isn't the most unified in the country...but I'm sure that all of the SW pilots on this board will agree with me on this point: shut your piehole. It's great that you seem to know what's best for the SW pilots, but really...you ExpressJet guys need to worry about ExpressJet, and the SW guys will worry about what goes on at SW. Every pilot group has to do what they have to do, with no need to answer to anyone else. I know this post is pointless, because the jabs will continue... and before you know it, mcpickle will be here accusing SW pilots of begging for his precious leftover meals.

btw, I voted for the un...oh, nevermind...I don't need to justify anything to you guys.

I'd love it if all I had to worry about is my house, but guess what everyone's pay/compensation is based on what their peers do. Make up all the BS you want, but those of us that actually put the effort in to make things better have learned this bitter lesson. That is why our friendly federal mediator told us to indefinetly go home and think about how we are being unreasonable in expecting our FO's to make enough money to support a family. After all according him and managment we need to be more like our peers at Skywest.

But that's fine you guys keep smiling skimming off the hard work of others. Sooner rather then later there will be mulitiple contracts by your peers that your managment team will hesitate to match for you guys. But I'm sure most of your guys will just be happy to have a job. If what your suits did to you guys with the 70 seaters didn't light a flame under your @sses now then you have no hope in the future. BTW, management saves!

 

[nimtz]

And by the way...if you are complaining about the whole 50/70 seat thing, why don't you complain about companies like North American, Ryan, Airborne, Omni, Polar or Atlas. Did you know that a SkyWest RJ captain makes more than a B767 captain at North American? Pilots at North American make the same if they fly the 757 or 767, just as SKYW piltos make the same for the RJ50 and RJ70. If we used North American's pay scale as a benchmark, then SKYW RJ pilots make too much!!! Who is to say which payscale is the benchmark?

GP

I'm sorry I must of missed something. How many former UAL Mainline routes is North American flying? BTW, leave Airborne out of this discussion. Look at this if you need proof... http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/abx/abx.htm

 

[ACWild]

I said, IF we used North American's pay scale as a benchmark, THEN SKYW CRJ pilots make too much. Thank God this industry doesn't use their pay scale as a benchmark.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Our (North American) captain pay rates are embarassing, in my opinion. We've just started contract negotiations, but it's going to take a while to hammer something out. I think it's going to be an eye-opener for some of our guys when I tell them that our pay rates are being laughed at by regional pilots, (although I'd much rather work at NAA).
Sorry for the brief hijacking, but someone did mention North American.

 

[Splert]

No one is making the company money sitting in the crew lounge

That is the queer thing about SkyWest. Having a general lack of utilization and who pay for it is built into the contract with UAL. The overhead costs associated with this lack of utilization are paid for my UAL. SGU is smart enough to understand that it's UAL schedule that we are contracting to fly and UAL shares the risk (overhead costs) of the utilization problem that they create for us. UAL and our QOL pay for it not SGU.

The company is covered we are not. Didn't SAPA explain that to us? Not a chance...

The 1 for 2-duty rig does not cost SGU jack when we fly 4-day trips that credit 3:45 for the middle two days of the first and last or all 4-days.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I'm sorry I must of missed something. How many former UAL Mainline routes is North American flying? BTW, leave Airborne out of this discussion. Look at this if you need proof... http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/abx/abx.htm

I stand corrected on Airborne.

Trust me, I'm just as pi$$ed about RJ's taking over mainline routes as anyone.

And no, I don't think SKYW CRJ pilots make too much!

GP

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

You can rationalize the new hire pay situation any way you want but the cold hard truth is you guys had no say in the matter.

That's true, I didn't deny that, but I don't care either. I wasn't paid either, they can suck it up. If we are losing too many potential employees then the kool aid drinkers will fix it.

I do resent that your pay is based soley on what the highest paid similar carrier is being paid. Unless you are participating in the processs to help improve things you guys are nothing but freeloaders. If just once you guys could get your management to make you the highest paid pilot group all this criticism would disappear. With or without a contract the perception that you guys are living large off of other people's hard efforts would diminish significantly. Get off the bench and take your turn at bat.

So if anybody, be it Horizon, ExpressJet, Eagle, ASA... anybody, were to base their new rates off of Comair's... by your rational they would be freeloaders too would they not? Oh wait, that's right, they pay union dues. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** I wish I could be that cool. Have those cool like union pins on my ID. I bet you guys had forts when you were kids huh? Secret handshakes? Yeah...


You guys pretty much have to forget about worrying about us having a union or not. We will have one eventually. I promise you that, there is no way that we won't. But I'll be **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**!ed if I am going to vote in a group like we had the last time. The reason we don't have one really is not all this anti union crap. At this turn it was because it was like a bunch of fourth graders put it together. I know they worked hard, maybe they didn't have enough help, vision, clue, or something, but it is bad and that's why it wasn't voted in.

Now you guys go play with your secret decoder rings, and I'm going to go about spending that 2% I get to keep.

 

[No.W.]

You guys who say we "screwed the brotherhood of pilots" are painting with too broad a brush. I voted "YES" on the union here at SkyWest and I am happy with the outcome of the vote. Do I think a union would have improved life here...yes...in the long run...but OUR pilot group has spoken. That's democracy. I am sick and tired of hearing how we are all one big brotherhood...to tell you the truth, that sounds more like cult following, kool-aid drinking rhetoric than the stuff we hear from management at any airline. We aren't a "brotherhood" we are a bunch of guys at different companies trying to make our lives better. I thought UPA could do that AT SKYWEST and that is why I voted the way I did. I plan on being here a while and I think it would be great to have some 'muscle'. However, I did NOT vote yes to "join the brotherhood of unionized pilots" I have enough to worry about in my own life...at my own company without worrying about fixing your problems to. Fix your own problems. I say "bravo" to CHQ as well. Any pilot group that comes together and forces their QOL up I look at and say...'good job guys'. I don't feel that way because it makes it easier to make my QOL better...I feel that way because I am a generally nice guy and like to see people get ahead in life. Again, I am worried about my life here at SkyWest. I would pull my hair out if I had to worry about all the other regionals around the country. Perhaps that is shortsighted. Perhaps that is selfish. I think it is reasonable. If you guys want to bash SkyWest because we are non-union...I can't stop you. I will say this...the pilot majority here spoke and I will continue to work within the confines of OUR decision...but I won't accept the fact that all of us here are apathetic in improving our QOL. In fact, I would say it is just the opposite...we are just divided on how to go about doing that. I don't know one pilot at any company who is just sitting back at "drinking the kool-aid". I see a lot of guys educating themselves and making informed decisions. Just my 2 cents

N

 

[Caveman]

"So if anybody, be it Horizon, ExpressJet, Eagle, ASA... anybody, were to base their new rates off of Comair's... by your rational they would be freeloaders too would they not?"


No, they would be taking their turn at trying to improve the going rate. Meanwhile, Skywest pilots sit back, do nothing and let others do the heavy lifting. You guys agree to get whatever everybody else negotiates for without ever doing any negotiating your self. You risk nothing while others risk everything. Even if you don't have a union you guys should take your turn instead of letting others set the bar for you. At least Eagle, Horizon, et al have been willing to risk a strike to demand a better wage. All you guys want to do is say "We'll take what they have". If you guys just once demanded and got ABC plus 5% then I'd have a little respect. Until that day ever happens you guys are just freeloaders.

BTW, I do agree that you guys are free to behave as you see fit. It's a free country. However, there are consequences for your collective behavior and I reserve the right to observe your behavior and find it disagreeable. Union or no union. That's your choice and to each his own, but I will not respect your collective unwillingness to improve things. You can choose to usurp others hard work and. frankly, we can't do anything about it. But I don't have to like it and it is my right to call you on it. You don't have to like or agree with others impressions of your pilot group, but you do have live with it because until things change you will be looked at as unwilling to carry your fair share of the load.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Caveman - don't want nor need your respect. This is all about getting up each day and living our own lives not about what somebody else is doing with theirs. I wish you the best in yours.

No. W. - excellent post. I had arguments with friends about this the whole time during the drive. The most enlightening result was the we all agreed that we need to do something, we just differed on how to go about it at this time.