Skywest Union Vote

[easy spirit]

Caveman,

I respectly disagree with your logic. Your logic says that SkyWest must risk a strike in order to raise the bar for ourselves and everyone else, and if the threat of a strike is not there, then we are just "freeloaders".

Well, I say to you this is not true. Allthough we are all pilots, we are not a "brotherhood" looking out for each other. The harsh reality of all this is that this is a business. And business is business. We are competitors, and what is good for Comair, Horizon, Chautauqua, etc. may not be good for SkyWest. When you guys at Comair were on strike, you were on strike TO BETTER YOUR OWN CONDITIONS, not for the betterment of others (competitors) conditions. If you were, have your heads examined.

I believe our 70 for 50 seat pay passed only because it is an 18 month agreement, and by the conclusion of the agreement, there would only be a small hand full of 70 seaters on the property. It was a bone thrown to mgt. from the pilots. Unfortunately you and others view this as our "continued unwillingness to improve things and carry our fair share of the load".

I can guarantee you that we will not sit idly by and see what is around before the end of this agreement to "see what we can get". We will seek meaningful improvements and we will expect nothing less from this profitable corporation. And when this happens, you and the others will view this as "raising the bar for everyone", when in reality we are just doing what is right for SkyWest.

Don't worry and lose any sleep about what were doing here at SkyWest, and (trust me), we won't worry about what you or anybody else is doing. It's just business!

 

[Caveman]

Easy Spirit,

You are exactly right. We did it to better our own conditions with barely, if any, a thought to what impact it would have on anybody else. What we didn't do was agree to the status quo. We tried to make a difference even if it was for selfish reasons. So far you guys have been unwilling to make a difference in your own lives. You take what is given to you instead of seeking to do better than that. Good is the enemey of better.

I'm glad that we respectfully disagree. Truth is I never met a Skywest pilot I didn't like. I have several friends there and we've learned to avoid this topic. We know that we disagree but we like each other nonetheless.

 

[easy spirit]

Caveman,
I'm glad we agree to disagree!
Now slide the pitcher down here.....my mugs empty!!

Cheers.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well, I say to you this is not true. Allthough we are all pilots, we are not a "brotherhood" looking out for each other. The harsh reality of all this is that this is a business. And business is business.

Wow. Good luck on your island. However, there are limited resources on an island.

See, when the Mesaba pilots were fighting for thier bread and butter, the rest of us stood up and supported them. It's nice to know you got family, cause no one can do it alone. Comair knows what I mean.

Now, when you guys are getting hammered, (and you will) you stick to your business is business routine. I'd imagine your pride will stop you from from asking for support and resources. And we do have resources...over 70 years worth. (no, not D. Worth you pinhead)

But in reality it is just as caveman said, you hang back, let the rest of us do the work, then stroll in like you own the place and say "hey, we want what those guys got for ourselves." But you don't get what we got. You get just enough, but yet a little less.....

Pretty efficient way to operate actually. And if that is what you choose so be it...

You are pretty unique in that there aren't very many other operators like you, that can be wipsawed against you. Another non union RJ express operator shows up and you guys will be catfish. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[homerjdispatch]

You are pretty unique in that there aren't very many other operators like you, that can be wipsawed against you. Another non union RJ express operator shows up and you guys will be catfish. Maybe, maybe not.

There is one MAJOR flaw in your thinking.

Union carriers, such as Mesa, are pulling the industry down much worse than SKYW. SKYW is whipsawed against "lowest cost bidder". Unions included. Seems Union carriers are lowering that bar. If SKYW unionizes, then fights to "raise the bar' and the company finds itself unable to outbid other carriers, then where is the benefit?

NOBODY WINS. Thats the Business side of it.

Seems like MESA forgot about their Union Brothers!!

 

[Ponchus pilot]

It used to be on airlinepilotcontracts.com but that page looks blank. Howver here's some stuff OTOH. I don't know of any other links.

Min daily pay 3:45 (no monthly lookback, it's a true guarantee)
100% pay for deadhead
2:1 duty rig with premium pay for anything schedules past 12 hours
A stock purchase plan that can put an extra few thousand bucks a year in a pilot's pocket (worst case scenario is 2.25% of income as profit)
Profit sharing deposited into 401K - can add a few grand of tax deferred income depending on seat and time of service.
Ability to drop or swap just part of a trip
Ability to define vacation - not locked in to taking entire week.

XJT contract 97
min pay 3 3/4
401 k=%6.5 year1-5, %8 year 5-10, %10 year 10+
no rigs, but the schedules are very efficient so i dont know how much extra we would get.
Ability to drop, swap any part of trip.
%100 deadhead pay
If your vacation touches any part of a trip, that trip gets dropped and you still get payed for the entire trip.
Our management has offered rates similar to Skywest's and we have said no.( Thats a 9% raise for the captains and %59 of that for FO's)
ASAP program.
etc...

 

[StarChecker]

I have more respect for CHQ pilots. While their contract may or may not live up to my standard they at least took their turn and tried to raise the bar. I know a lot of folks aren't real happy with the outcome but it was a tough time econmically to be negotiating and they did get significant improvements in most areas of their contract. They didn't sit back and say we'll take whatever Skywest gets, or Comair, or whomever. They participated in the process.

Thank you.

 

[easy spirit]

"Wow. Good luck on your island. However, there are limited resources on an island."


Right now, we got what we need. Thanks for your genuine concern.


"See, when the Mesaba pilots were fighting for thier bread and butter, the rest of us stood up and supported them. It's nice to know you got family, cause no one can do it alone. Comair knows what I mean."


I never said we didn't support someone for fighting for their OWN benefit.


"Now, when you guys are getting hammered, (and you will) you stick to your business is business routine. I'd imagine your pride will stop you from from asking for support and resources. And we do have resources...over 70 years worth. (no, not D. Worth you pinhead)"


Let me see, pay 2% of my salary for dues and get a contract in 2-3 years or pay no dues and get an agreement BEFORE our current one expires. SkyWest pilots have spoken loudly on this one.



"But in reality it is just as caveman said, you hang back, let the rest of us do the work, then stroll in like you own the place and say "hey, we want what those guys got for ourselves." But you don't get what we got. You get just enough, but yet a little less....."


As I said to caveman, I respectfully disagree. We will not be hanging back. We will have a new agreement BEFORE our current one expires in December. Now, if we had that union, 2-3 years before we get a contract.......THAT would be hanging back.
Later dude.


"Pretty efficient way to operate actually. And if that is what you choose so be it..."

"You are pretty unique in that there aren't very many other operators like you, that can be wipsawed against you. Another non union RJ express operator shows up and you guys will be catfish. Maybe, maybe not."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have more respect for CHQ pilots. While their contract may or may not live up to my standard they at least took their turn and tried to raise the bar. I know a lot of folks aren't real happy with the outcome but it was a tough time econmically to be negotiating and they did get significant improvements in most areas of their contract. They didn't sit back and say we'll take whatever Skywest gets, or Comair, or whomever. They participated in the process

CHQ pilots threw thier FOs under the bus.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There is one MAJOR flaw in your thinking.

Union carriers, such as Mesa, are pulling the industry down much worse than SKYW. SKYW is whipsawed against "lowest cost bidder". Unions included. Seems Union carriers are lowering that bar. If SKYW unionizes, then fights to "raise the bar' and the company finds itself unable to outbid other carriers, then where is the benefit?

NOBODY WINS. Thats the Business side of it.

Seems like MESA forgot about their Union Brothers!!

Mesa should've done what Mesaba did.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Easy Spirit,

Does SkyWest have a bonifide grievence process?

 

[homerjdispatch]

Mesa should've done what Mesaba did.

But they didnt............

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Meanwhile, Skywest pilots sit back, do nothing and let others do the heavy lifting.

If your pilot group hadn't lowered the bar so much with PFT in the 90's maybe there wouldn't be so much heavy lifting involved. Ever thought of that Caveman? Your MEC along with others did an excellent job of "CAVING" into management's demand for PFT. Is that how you got your screen name? Were you around back in the early and mid 90's like I was? I was the guy flying freight in a ratty POS airplane because I didn't want to play the PFT game. And you guys have the nerve to criticize SkyWest for not being able to get new hires paid. Give me a friggin break.

 

[Flash 7]

When you guys at Comair were on strike, you were on strike TO BETTER YOUR OWN CONDITIONS, not for the betterment of others (competitors) conditions. If you were, have your heads examined.


It actually ran thru my head a lot when I was walking.
Believe it or not a lot of us did feel we were taking a stand for all regional pilots. Sure we got a good contract but we fought hard for it. We also were very proud that we made progress for other airlines. Unless you have struck, it might be hard for you to understand.

I think thats all Caveman was getting at.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Look, I'm just tired of people telling me I should be in a union just because they are. ALPA hasn't exactly done right for the regionals. Let's look at some of the highlights of ALPA and the regionals.

1. ALPA basically did nothing to stop PFT
2. ALPA = Scope = inefficient 50 seaters =less pay
3. ALPA = Flow-through = furlough protection for mainline (IE Eagle)
4. ALPA = Jets for Jobs = seniority goes out the window (IE Airways WO's)

At least at SkyWest we've never had PFT or a furlough.
Our version of Jets for Jobs maintains the integrity of our seniority list.
We don't lag behind other carriers for years before negotiating a new contract. Adjustments are made more frequently so if you look at a SKYW pilot over a 10 year period he/she may actually be the best paid.

How many other regionals can say no furlough, no PFT, and Jets for Jobs done right?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If your pilot group hadn't lowered the bar so much with PFT in the 90's maybe there wouldn't be so much heavy lifting involved. Ever thought of that Caveman? Your MEC along with others did an excellent job of "CAVING" into management's demand for PFT. Is that how you got your screen name? Were you around back in the early and mid 90's like I was? I was the guy flying freight in a ratty POS airplane because I didn't want to play the PFT game. And you guys have the nerve to criticize SkyWest for not being able to get new hires paid. Give me a friggin break.

Explain how a pilot group and/or union controls the hiring requirements of an airline including PFT?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Look, I'm just tired of people telling me I should be in a union just because they are. ALPA hasn't exactly done right for the regionals. Let's look at some of the highlights of ALPA and the regionals.

1. ALPA basically did nothing to stop PFT
2. ALPA = Scope = inefficient 50 seaters =less pay
3. ALPA = Flow-through = furlough protection for mainline (IE Eagle)
4. ALPA = Jets for Jobs = seniority goes out the window (IE Airways WO's)

At least at SkyWest we've never had PFT or a furlough.
Our version of Jets for Jobs maintains the integrity of our seniority list.
We don't lag behind other carriers for years before negotiating a new contract. Adjustments are made more frequently so if you look at a SKYW pilot over a 10 year period he/she may actually be the best paid.

How many other regionals can say no furlough, no PFT, and Jets for Jobs done right?

Dave,

ALPA or any organization is as good as its members, congregation or citizens. A union is a resource, not a service. 95% of us ALPA members don't realize this and don't get it and until we do.........

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Explain how a pilot group and/or union controls the hiring requirements of an airline including PFT?

Maybe the folks that have told us if we were union that our management would have to pay new hires can clarify that for you. The way I remember it ALPA (through the MEC's) had to approve PFT. It was a change to the contract, right?

 

[Chairman]

Easy Spirit,

Does SkyWest have a bonifide grievence process?

Yes, it is know as a Policy Interpertaition Complaint, and most are resolved in favor of the crewmember and normally in 60 days or less/

 

[crashpad]

If you do get ALPA, don't EVER let them payroll deduct dues.
They'll send you Gestapo flyers, threats and even assign one of your fellow pilots to try to convince you it's necessary to avoid becoming a member in Bad Standing.

I've been a member of ALPA in good standing for over ten years, and never payrole deducted. Why? Because you don't have to.
You can pay monthly, and make money off the interest Alpa might be collecting. Or when you leave the company, you don't automatically get it deducted from your last check (which will be important in case of furloughs)

As a long time member of Alpa I can tell your this.
They are great in creating and changing the standards which make this industry safe for pilots...all pilots! It does'nt matter if you're a member, Everyone benefits from Alpa!
Alpa likes money, lot's of it! If you got it, they want it, so give it.
Reminds me of protection money for the family.
Oh, if you're a feeder like Skywest and Alpa serves Delta also....
do you think ALPA will be impartial to your needs?...ha,ha,ha,ha,