Skywest Union Vote

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If your pilot group hadn't lowered the bar so much with PFT in the 90's maybe there wouldn't be so much heavy lifting involved. Ever thought of that Caveman? Your MEC along with others did an excellent job of "CAVING" into management's demand for PFT. Is that how you got your screen name? Were you around back in the early and mid 90's like I was? I was the guy flying freight in a ratty POS airplane because I didn't want to play the PFT game. And you guys have the nerve to criticize SkyWest for not being able to get new hires paid. Give me a friggin break.

Explain how a pilot group and/or union controls the hiring requirements of an airline including PFT?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Look, I'm just tired of people telling me I should be in a union just because they are. ALPA hasn't exactly done right for the regionals. Let's look at some of the highlights of ALPA and the regionals.

1. ALPA basically did nothing to stop PFT
2. ALPA = Scope = inefficient 50 seaters =less pay
3. ALPA = Flow-through = furlough protection for mainline (IE Eagle)
4. ALPA = Jets for Jobs = seniority goes out the window (IE Airways WO's)

At least at SkyWest we've never had PFT or a furlough.
Our version of Jets for Jobs maintains the integrity of our seniority list.
We don't lag behind other carriers for years before negotiating a new contract. Adjustments are made more frequently so if you look at a SKYW pilot over a 10 year period he/she may actually be the best paid.

How many other regionals can say no furlough, no PFT, and Jets for Jobs done right?

Dave,

ALPA or any organization is as good as its members, congregation or citizens. A union is a resource, not a service. 95% of us ALPA members don't realize this and don't get it and until we do.........

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Explain how a pilot group and/or union controls the hiring requirements of an airline including PFT?

Maybe the folks that have told us if we were union that our management would have to pay new hires can clarify that for you. The way I remember it ALPA (through the MEC's) had to approve PFT. It was a change to the contract, right?

 

[Chairman]

Easy Spirit,

Does SkyWest have a bonifide grievence process?

Yes, it is know as a Policy Interpertaition Complaint, and most are resolved in favor of the crewmember and normally in 60 days or less/

 

[crashpad]

If you do get ALPA, don't EVER let them payroll deduct dues.
They'll send you Gestapo flyers, threats and even assign one of your fellow pilots to try to convince you it's necessary to avoid becoming a member in Bad Standing.

I've been a member of ALPA in good standing for over ten years, and never payrole deducted. Why? Because you don't have to.
You can pay monthly, and make money off the interest Alpa might be collecting. Or when you leave the company, you don't automatically get it deducted from your last check (which will be important in case of furloughs)

As a long time member of Alpa I can tell your this.
They are great in creating and changing the standards which make this industry safe for pilots...all pilots! It does'nt matter if you're a member, Everyone benefits from Alpa!
Alpa likes money, lot's of it! If you got it, they want it, so give it.
Reminds me of protection money for the family.
Oh, if you're a feeder like Skywest and Alpa serves Delta also....
do you think ALPA will be impartial to your needs?...ha,ha,ha,ha,

 

[Splert]

Yes, it is know as a Policy Interpertaition Complaint, and most are resolved in favor of the crewmember and normally in 60 days or less/

It should be called a PPIC.

Personal PIC. If it's resolved favorably it only affects the person filing the complaint. It does not set precedent or provide a look back or even a look forward.

To make it worse no one else knows about the resolution. SAPA is very reluctant to release the results. The say that they will release them but to date very, very, very, very few have.

The PIC is a joke. At least the PIC committee is paid by management to debate them for us and then never tell us about them. Nice system.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Splert,
Would you prefer the ALPA system where it takes 6 months, a year or more to resolve and you have to wait for the retroactive pay? I've seen problems resolved with retro pay on the next paycheck.

I agree with you that PIC's should be used as precedent. That would save everyone time. If you look at the SAPA website there is a log of recent PIC's and how they've been resolved. I've seen many issues resolved without even resorting to a PIC. Sometimes all it takes is a phone call.

I think the system works far better than what we'd have with ALPA. It's a less formal process that offers quick results. But if you'd rather pay dues and have slower results that's fine.

 

[Splert]

6 PICs

In the past 7 years 6 PICs have been disseminated to the membership. That is wonderful.

Time doesn't impress me. Results, precedents and changed behavior do. SAPA is 0 for 3.

Free does not impress me either. In the long and short term SAPA has cost us plenty.

Also as long as we borrow and steal from other pilot groups this SkyWest pilot is not impressed with SAPA or its proponents. Yes I'd rather pay dues than steal the product of others hard work and sacrifice.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Maybe the folks that have told us if we were union that our management would have to pay new hires can clarify that for you. The way I remember it ALPA (through the MEC's) had to approve PFT. It was a change to the contract, right?

Well Dave, you seem to be representing the information, but now, you are telling me I have to check with " The Folks". Whose Folks? My folks, your folks? Their folks?

I question your memory. What contract? Let us know and we'll resource the contract on the ALPA website.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, it is know as a Policy Interpertaition Complaint, and most are resolved in favor of the crewmember and normally in 60 days or less/

Fill me in. If Skywest was determined to rid themselves of a pilot, can they ignore or manipulate the Policy Interpretation Complaint.

What if a pilot isn't satisfied with the ruling? Ultimately is there a third party arbirtrator?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I question your memory. What contract? Let us know and we'll resource the contract on the ALPA website.

Do they maintain copies of previous contracts going back more than 10 years? Here's what I remember. Back when the older (and smarter) Bush was president some of the regionals like Coex, Comair, and others decided to start charging upwards of 10 grand to anyone that wanted to fly one of their airplanes. Prior to that time the contracts said people showed up for work and got paid. Then all of a sudden it was PFT. My recollection is that the contracts had to be changed to accomodate the new revenue generation.

What ever the particulars were it still doesn't change the fact that ALPA did nothing to prevent PFT from becoming common practice. The guys I knew back then that were flying for regionals gave me the impression that ALPA wasn't doing much to stop PFT.

But hey it's been over 10 years. I may not recall every conversation I had too clearly. PFT is still a clear memory though. I remember going back to construction because I didn't feel like whoring myself out and the 135 flying was getting a bit hazardous to my health.