Skywest Union Vote

[Dave Benjamin]

Just quit buying into the "we're different and we're better" stuff. SkyWest is simply an airline. Just like Comair, ASA, Horizon,etc. Hopefully more than just a handful of the pilots will figure that out someday.

I think SkyWest pilots might have voted for a union if there was one out there designed for regional pilots. ALPA has a huge conflict of interest unfortunately. The QX guys I've talked to aren't that thrilled with Teamster representation. It took them quite a while to get a contract.

I've never heard any SkyWest foks say "we're different and we're better," have you? You could make a case for being different though. Over 30 mostly profitable years with the same CEO. Good employee relations. Profit sharing (deposited into 401-K) and stock options. Except for the past couple of years pilots have been at or near the top of the industry for pay and work rules. Remember if you vote in a union you start negotiating from scratch and there's no guarantee you'll end up with anything better that the current deal. Given the current state of the industry it's pretty likely that SkyWest pilots would end up with the short end of the stick.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Post me a link to your awsome contract so I can look at it.

It used to be on airlinepilotcontracts.com but that page looks blank. Howver here's some stuff OTOH. I don't know of any other links.

Min daily pay 3:45 (no monthly lookback, it's a true guarantee)
100% pay for deadhead
2:1 duty rig with premium pay for anything schedules past 12 hours
A stock purchase plan that can put an extra few thousand bucks a year in a pilot's pocket (worst case scenario is 2.25% of income as profit)
Profit sharing deposited into 401K - can add a few grand of tax deferred income depending on seat and time of service.
Ability to drop or swap just part of a trip
Ability to define vacation - not locked in to taking entire week

 

[Gobi Gred]

Dave,

SkyWest does have some great benefits but it doesn't mean squat if it can go bye bye tomorrow. Personally I wouldn't want my family's livelihood resting on a handshake deal. I would also agree that SkyWest probably has one of the best management teams in the industry. They've kept the airline consistently profitable, labor costs under control, and union free. BUT is that management team going to run the airline forever? No. And Jerry will not lose sleep over whether or not Dave Benjamin has a job. The time to vote in a union is not after things have gone in the toilet. That's like wrecking your car with no insurance and then calling Allstate and saying "yeah can I get some of that car insurance stuff you sell cause I kinda need it now" That being said fly safe, and hopefully the next drive will be sucessful.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Gobi,

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one. There's a lot of union pilots that didn't find solace in ALPA when their company underwent a change of ownership or merger. Just ask any TWA pilot that paid union dues for 3 decades. Reno Air pilots got the shaft as well when it came to the merger with AA. I understand where you're coming from with the concern for the future. I don't share the conviction that you should throw out everything you have now because of what might happen someday.

I'm also trying to insulate myself to some extent by not having all my eggs in one basket. Hopefully I'll have a masters degree soon and some good career options if I lose my medical or my job disappears. We're really no different than those in other industries. I think you have to look out for yourself to a large extent rather than trust a third party to safeguard your interests. We have some pretty talented professionals in this country who thought their high tech jobs were secure only to watch them go to India.

 

[SaladShooter]

Union or non union that is a tough question and it looks like the SKW pilots made a choice, it is now their bed and let them lie in it. Good Luck in the future.

I am an ALPA member, do I like it, well most of the time no but I can tell ou this if heaven forbid I have an accident or incident I know that ALPA is on my side to defend me against not only the FAA but most importantly the company. ALPA is like an insurance policy, you hate making the payments but if the sh*t hits the fan it is nice to know they are on your side. All the other benefits are crap compared to that!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Gobi,

I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one. There's a lot of union pilots that didn't find solace in ALPA when their company underwent a change of ownership or merger. Just ask any TWA pilot that paid union dues for 3 decades. Reno Air pilots got the shaft as well when it came to the merger with AA. I understand where you're coming from with the concern for the future. I don't share the conviction that you should throw out everything you have now because of what might happen someday.

This is a common misconception. What if ALPA wasn't on the property. What do you think AMR/APA would have done if there was no union for the TWA guys? Treated them better?

Here is one... if APA were still ALPA, it might have gone better...maybe worse.

Skywest is able to keep unions off the property cause they offer the hard bargained payscale and work rules the unions fought for. Would skywest offer the wages it does if the rest of the industry averaged 30% less?

But it is all good.... It's just that we all make mistakes.... I guess Skywest pilots are perfect or thier management is more understanding than a left wing liberal love fest in Hollywood Hills.

Why union?

As an employee for the company you should ask yourself why are you working here? Is your primary purpose to serve yourself or the company? In reality most of us work for ourselves. We need income to provide for ourselves and our families. We are actually a small business entity providing a service for our companies. We could be seen as contractors. We have invested tremendous amounts of time, energy and money to simply apply for employment. Once we are established, especially with the purchase of a house and having children our job security is critical. Protecting your job has never become more important.

It is human nature to deny a problem and accept responsibility. It is also human nature to expect results without understanding the complications faced in achieving those results.
Such is the management style of some chief pilot office. For some managers it is easier and cheaper to terminate pilots who make mistakes than acknowledge responsibilities on their own part.

After spending so much time and energy to be an airline pilot can you afford to lose your job because you were given a stacked deck?

 

[GogglesPisano]

I know you guys hate hearing this, but I'll say it anyway:

The next time a bill introducing cabatoge, or increasing duty limits, or criminalizing accidents, or installing cameras in cockpits is defeated on Capitol Hill ..........

....... thank a dues-paying ALPA pilot.


Cheers!

 

[whiff]

Dave the ability to drop trips isn't anything different from any airline. Try to get vacation time for anything with our continual short staffing and forget it. Fourteen rejected requests and counted - some with a months notice. Yeh we got it great.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

There is more flexibility in how things get broken up. That's all I was trying to say. At many airlines when you put in for a week of vacation you take the whole week whether you want it or not. I have a neighbor who is a captain at a major that thinks we're more flexible.

 

[TriJet]

"Different and Better"

Dave,

that was (maybe still is) SkyWest's mission statement for many years.

 

[Splert]

To this day SkyWest has better trip rigs, minimum pay guarantees, deadhead pay, and vacation policies than many other carriers.

SkyWest does not have a trip rig.

If SkyWest had a trip rig then the minimum pay guarantee would be meaningless for 95% of the trips that we do. Minimum daily pay is great for locals but locals are becoming a thing of the past at SkyWest. Our great out station domiciles are flying 320-360 hours away from base. A daily guarantee is worthless compared to a trip rig.

Deadhead pay…wow we can eat for a year on the difference between 100% dead head pay and 50% deadhead pay especially with our great utilization where our pay check is mostly the 1 for 2 duty time guarantee and not block. Great, we get paid 100% of 55 minutes of DH, then we sit for 5 hours during the day and they add 55 minutes of 100% DH pay to our block time for the day and then pay us the higher of our block or our 1 for 2 duty time guarantee. Super meaningless. Looks good on paper but it is worthless. Especially, with a 1 for 3.5 or 3.75 TAFB TRIP RIG which we don’t have. You might find one or two cases where a 100% DH work out but for the majority of the flying we do a TAFB TRIP RIG takes care of all this issues.

Vacation accrual: Your kidding yourself if you think ours is better or the best.

Look back and leg cancellation: Is no big deal if a 1 for 3.5 or 3.75 TAFB TRIP RIG is in place. 95% of our flying are trips, not locals. Cancel day 2 of a four day trip, I don't care, I'm still away from my base.

I'll take a trip rig over all those other illusionary guarantees SkyWest and SAPA are so proud to misrepresent.

 

[ExFokkerFlyer]

:Hey guys, those of you not here at Skywest probably misconstrue the meaning of recent events. Although I honestly don't speak for anybody but myself, I think I can clarify at least in a small part the recent events here.

Nobody is saying we're better. We aren't. We do have some things other's don't in our 'contract', we are missing some things we would like that others have. That really wasn't the issue with this last union drive.

To those who say we don't have a contract currently, you are right! We have an agreement. Could management change is anytime they wish? Sure! Have they in the history of the airline? Not really. Middle managers have changed their interpretations on some things, however for the most part, we can rectify most of those situations in a timely manner. Other's may take longer, but for the most part they get done. Management will not simply, overtly change our agreement to their liking therefore hosing the pilots. If they did there would be a revolt, and probably ALPA. Not a regional pilots best friend, but were we would probably go in revenge. They know that, so they won't go there.

To those who disagree, I realize I am oversimplfying some of these points, but only to get to the main point. I am as anti union as they come. But even I realize that Skywest will eventually will become a union airline. It will happen, no doubt about it.

My problem with this last union effort is lack of organization. Now i know it's a HUGE deal to organize an inhouse union. But this effort came off to me, haphazard at best. Many ideas were flawed or simply illegal from the beginning, not instilling confidence at all. And though anti-union, I did honestly look into it with open eyes because I was frustrated at what we had. In the end I realized that at least with what I had seen, I would be better off with the two evils I do know, management and SAPA, than with another unkown.

Simply, this was a vote of no confidence with the organizers. We know we have problems, most of us choose to fight the fight with the tools we have, rather than those we haven't figured out how to pay for yet.

 

[sstearns2]

I know you guys hate hearing this, but I'll say it anyway:

The next time a bill introducing cabatoge, or increasing duty limits, or criminalizing accidents, or installing cameras in cockpits is defeated on Capitol Hill ..........

....... thank a dues-paying ALPA pilot.


Cheers!

I was under the impression that ALPA's PAC is not supported by general membership dues, but by other donations. I can't imagine that there is much money left over for ALPA national at the regional level anyhow.

Scott

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I was under the impression that ALPA's PAC is not supported by general membership dues, but by other donations. I can't imagine that there is much money left over for ALPA national at the regional level anyhow.

Scott

ALPA National has the audience of congress on particular issues that deal w/ the airline industry. In addition, when 9/11 occured ALPA Prez was on the conference call with all the transportation leaders. At one point it was declared "well, there goes jumpseating" ALPA Prez DW said hold on... So it went from no jumpseating to keeping on line jumpseating. (the Skywest pilots benifited from that, don't you think?)

The regionals can benefit from the majors big salaries. That is one of the reasons to be in ALPA. The same reason why 50 states are part of the USA. When one state has a natural disaster, there is money and resources from the other 49. (hint hint, Skywest)

As far as ALPA-PAC, that is voluntary and the ALPA membership avg contribution rate is a low 18%. The problem with ALPA-PAC contributions is, pilots think thier money goes to non pilot issues...(like abortion or welfare or liberal issues, for example) (it doesn't). So they don't give. Or they think they are getting ripped off at 1.95% and god forbid if they give ALPA (read themselves) one more damm cent.

Unless there is another professional airline pilot PAC, in theory Southwest, jetblue, and all pilots should give to ALPA-PAC. (or create a non ALPA pilot PAC. The AMR/APA dudes have thier own PAC) Why? Because SWA and jB are using the money that thier pilots help generate and give to the airline management PAC, known as the ATA.

Management has the Air Transport Association (created in 1936 in part to counter ALPA's effectiveness on Capital Hill) and pilots have ALPA.

Right now, airline management gives more in millions than pilots do to thier repsective PACs. Money talks, something else walks. Who do you think is going to get the legislation they want? Do you think management is interested in protecting Pilot careers or do they just want hourly labor?

Well, thats my shameless Sat. morn spin zone.

Give to the PAC cause the career you save may be your own! (c'mon, what is five freakin dollars? Have one less beer on an overnight per year!)

Here, I'll even help....

For more information about ALPA-PAC, please contact the ALPA Government Affairs Department at (202) 797-4033 or via e-mail at [email protected].

 

[strega7]

(hint hint, Skywest)

Should that be (hint hint, Skywest and JetBlue)?

 

[SLOTH]

Ability to drop or swap just part of a trip
Ability to define vacation - not locked in to taking entire week

Dave B.

That's all nice and dandy if one could get any time off when they need it... not when the company has the staffing to allow it! In some other reply you mentioned flexibility, but it means squat if you can't even make use of it because of whatever is happening within the company (ie. not enough staffing). Many crews have decided that it is much easier to get the time off when they claim to be ill and that leaves the company the problem to fill the void without anyone being available.

Sloth

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Sloth,
I agree with you there. The main thing to realize is that this stuff runs in cycles. I've seen periods of time when they were begging people to take vacation or user time and other times when 20 vacation requests in a row get denied. I'd like to see the 3.5:1 or 3.75:1 trip rig but we need to be careful what we need to give up to get it. Right now schedules and QOL are impaired due to the schedules demanded by the codeshare partners. Not much the company can do about that. However in a few years the frequency may be restored and the existing gurantees we have will be more valuable.

Unfortunately a union would not necessarily solve the problem. In fact the same kind of stuff goes on at union airlines. There is no silver bullet.

 

[Caveman]

"To those who say we don't have a contract currently, you are right! We have an agreement. Could management change is anytime they wish? Sure! Have they in the history of the airline? Not really. Middle managers have changed their interpretations on some things, however for the most part, we can rectify most of those situations in a timely manner. Other's may take longer, but for the most part they get done. Management will not simply, overtly change our agreement to their liking therefore hosing the pilots. If they did there would be a revolt, and probably ALPA. Not a regional pilots best friend, but were we would probably go in revenge. They know that, so they won't go there."

Care to explain the situation when your management arbitrarily decided to stop paying new hires in training? Are you suggesting that you guys agreed to that? What will they decide to change next?

 

[SLOTH]

Unfortunately a union would not necessarily solve the problem. In fact the same kind of stuff goes on at union airlines. There is no silver bullet.

I agree, but in the end it is really the company that calls the shots. All we can say is that we would disagree with their decision, but we end up without any sort of system to "force" the hand of management. As far as "things run in cycles" is concerned. The problem is that we the workers don't have a say in when or where those cycles affect us. Upper management may not have complete control over those cycles either, but they do have a hand in the up front planning that takes place that ultimately determines how deep the cycles run. Why should we carry the burden for their lack of action/inaction? I don't remember being asked what we need to do regarding the staffing situation, so it isn't my responsibility.

Sloth

 

[nimtz]

Hey good job Skywest guys! Mmm, Mmm, that is some good d@mn koolaid they serve in Utah! At least you guys can look forward to a properous future in the growing 70 seat market. Look forward to an industry competitive 50 seat wage to fly an airplane that produces 29% more revenue! Congratulations, really I'm happy you are so happy having you're heads up your @sses.