Skywest sez this about UAL J4J.....

[reno]

Violating the seniority system at SkyWest would be a great way to add to the push to get a union on property. I don't think that's what management wants or intends!

 

[surplus1]

Shareholder to pilot I could care less about your agreement with management, just show me the money...

WD.

Pilot to shareholder ...... violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money. Additionally the money you thought you had will become a pipe dream. You see shareholder, my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first. Mr. shareholder we can both see the money if we work together, but if you take my money and give it to someone else, there will be no winners. "Thou shall not steal."

Most things are negotiable. Giving my seniority to someone else, merely because he wants it, should not be one of them. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods."

 

[WhiteCloud]

Pilot to shareholder ...... violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money. Additionally the money you thought you had will become a pipe dream. You see shareholder, my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first. Mr. shareholder we can both see the money if we work together, but if you take my money and give it to someone else, there will be no winners. "Thou shall not steal."

Most things are negotiable. Giving my seniority to someone else, merely because he wants it, should not be one of them. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods."

Why not ask them to provide preferential job opportunities for Skywest pilots when hiring resumes as part of the deal? OK....UAL may never hire again but it would be good to see if they think you are "good enough" to fly with them.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Pilot to shareholder ...... violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money. Additionally the money you thought you had will become a pipe dream. You see shareholder, my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first. Mr. shareholder we can both see the money if we work together, but if you take my money and give it to someone else, there will be no winners. "Thou shall not steal."

Most things are negotiable. Giving my seniority to someone else, merely because he wants it, should not be one of them. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods."

Surplus1,

Man you obviously mistook what I said as my feelings. I can assure you the opposite is true. Lets look at what you have just stated and see where this plane goes. you said "my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first." I can tell you this (employee!!!) do it or be replaced!!!!! Mesa/freedom has shown that there are plenty of people out there willing to do what ever it takes to put on a uniform and profess "I'm a real live airlinepilot"
Point two, "violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money". Oh but I will this is a business and your overall happiness is really a back issue it's about making money and the only thing you can do to really hurt the process is quit all of a sudden and not just you, it would take enough that most flights would have to be cancelled due to lack of crews, and there just isn't that much unity anywhere when you start to tell a person that he/she can't make that mortgage payment. We are now in the age of let's start an alter ego which takes me back to point number 1, many willing to do what you won't!!!

Surplus1, I am a pilot as well and I don't agree with this whole super seniority crap, but when you speak of big business you must understand that corporations are built on the blood,sweat and tears of others. They rob, steal, lie and even kill all in the name of profit margins. Here is just a small example of this kind of mentality. Enron, worldcom, sprint just to name a few. I will leave you with this, always have a backup plan!!!!

WD.

 

[Splert]

WD,

Thanks for the lesson in Community College Business 001a.

What is your point?

UAL furloughs will be treated like new employees. The only difference is that they will be hired the old fashion way: ie. connections. They will be hired and placed at the bottom of the list. Bottom of the list. List at the bottom.

Yes but management is bad and shareholders are greedy and you have no unity and my mother can kick your momma’s but in a beauty contest and UAL furloughed pilots will be hired and placed at the bottom of the seniority list and management is bad and shareholders are greedy and you have no unity and my mother can kick your mamma’s butt in a beauty contest and at band camp…

Also, feel free to throw in a period or two per paragraph Captain run-on sentence.

Splert…

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Splert, you were so dam busy trying to be an alpha hotel the you missed the point. Someone stated the "we have unity so that won't happen to this pilot group. I simply pointed out a different perspective................................................. enough periods for teacher??????

WD.

 

[Splert]

W.D.,

After all the perspective in the world the bottom line is that they will be at the bottom of the list.

What else is there? I forgot…if the sunset was in the east things would be different and then the UAL furloughed pilot would be at the bottom of the list.

Management is bad, shareholders are greedy and the UAL furloughed pilots will be at the bottom of the list.

Moving on...

Splert…

 

[General Lee]

Yes, but to fly 70 seaters for United, you will have to play by their rules. If you choose not to, Mesa will. You are lucky that United didn't ask for 5 Capt slots per 70 seat RJ. Face it, Jerry wants the revenue, and at the same time doesn't want you to get ALPA on the property. If he has to choose--he'll go for the revenue. AirWisky has to follow the 70 seater rule, and probably Mesa. Why shouldn't you? It makes sense, and UAL holds the cards. You can always roll the dice and pull an ACA.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Pee_nuss]

Then no 70's i guess. I could give a crap less if we fly 70's or not, it doesn't change our pay. If they do pull some crap, there WILL be a union here within a month. You guys can talk all the bad stuff you want about Skywest, but if you will sell your senority list out, man.....

Nuss

 

[Russ]

Gen Lee
What is the 70 seat rule you mentioned as it applies to Wisky?

 

[Splert]

general Lee,

Yes, but to fly 70 seat [jets] for United, you will have to play by their rules... You are lucky that United didn't ask for 5 Capt slots per 70 seat RJ.

I covered this already.

However, you keep insisting that it’s UAL and not UALPA that was asking for the moon. It was UALPA that wanted to put their furloughed pilots in the jet at SkyWest. UAL could give a rats butt.

It makes sense, and UAL holds the cards.

There you go again. UAL would like nothing more than to have SkyWest, MESA and others to fly 1000’s of RJ’s for them. However, it is UALPA putting the breaks on UAL.

UALPA is trying to tell SkyWest how to run its business. Last time I checked SkyWest is paid by UAL and not by UALPA. Without UAL to back UALPA all UALPA is holding is their units. That is why they are at the bottom of the list. UALPA backed down.

I find no pleasure in UAL pilots being furloughed: it freaking sucks. I wish DALPA and UALPA would find a way to fly these RJ’s themselves. But we are past that. Or are we? Why don’t you sit down and find a rate at which these jets will make money for DAL or UAL.

Can you at least do that?

Splert…

 

[~~~^~~~]

Gen Lee
What is the 70 seat rule you mentioned as it applies to Wisky?

ALPA's jets for jobs protocol has required that all Captain slots be given to furloughed mainline pilots. This has proven problematic to implement. The longer Skywest can delay ALPA's J4J tactics, the better off your pilots and Company will be. There are many problems with J4J, but wonder:

(1) If the UAL pilot does not have the qualifications for the position?
(2) If the UAL pilot has problems in training, can Skywest fire them?
(3) Is a UAL pilot in his "probationary year?"
(4) Does the UAL pilot have ALPA protections at Skywest?
(5) Does ALPA represent the UAL pilots at Skywest?

You say Skywest does not want ALPA? How do you think this will work out when you have a bunch of new Captains (with ALPA to thank for the trick of putting them at the top of another airline's seniority list) preaching to junior First Officers?

As you can read from my friend General Lee, the mainline pilots have been preached to by ALPA that they own your jobs, that they now believe it.

Good luck to Skywest pilots. ALPA did ask for the moon, and at other airlines, they are getting it!

~~~^~~~

 

[Splert]

ALPA did ask for the moon, and at other airlines, they are getting it!

Was this the price of "brotherhood"?

Splert...

 

[g159av8tor]

roll the dice and pull an ACA.

I hope that phrase goes in the aviation history books and is added to Webster's dictionary!

Roll the dice and pull an ACA (phrase) 1. to stand-up to your abusive spouse and leave, never to return 2. to take a gamble with uncertainty and go on your own 3. to mortally thrust a wooden stake into the heart of a vampire and other walking dead in an act of vindication and independence!!!

Remeber, ACA is an abbreviation. I hate when foreigners and UAL stations pronounce it "AHH KAHH".

Tailwinds...

 

[Russ]

Thanks Fins
I didn't know Wisky had to give up jobs on the dumbo jet. I haven't heard of them getting any 70 seat CRJ's so I guess that's where they will go? That is unless they are getting 70's and it simply made it past me.

 

[surplus1]

Was this the price of "brotherhood"?

No sir. Brotherhood is only conferred upon those born with blue blood.

May I recommend UPA? That way you can avoid the Trojan Horse.

 

[Jeepman]

General,

It makes no sense for SkyWest to give any extra seniority to UAL furloughs. Would they offer preferential hiring in the future (theoretically speaking)? No. They go to the bottom.

Besides, what would all of your Delta furloughs making first year pay in the RJ have to say about it?

 

[General Lee]

I know it doesn't make sense Jeepman. I thought that was the "order" that United Alpa forced the company to use when dealing with the Express carriers. They could ask for the Moon and try to get that too. I thought United Alpa wanted their furloughed FO's in the FO seat of the 70 seater. I am probably wrong. As far as our Delta furloughs, I think most would go to the right seat of an RJ if they knew they were going to be out for a long time, but with the nasty reception they have recieved from some (not the ASA or Chataqua pilots), I doubt they would try. But, I do know that many would go to a seperate DCI carrier made for them. We know that Delta wants more 70 seaters, and after Comair and ASA get their order filled, we are hoping that a deal could be made that would include our furloughs into new 70 seaters under the DCI banner, and with comparative rates. We shall see--but we do have 1310 people who would like to fly again, and without the "CRM" crap they have gotten so far from one group.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[wil]

General- I was on travelnet today checking out my families trip to Ireland. Next to the peoples names listed are their employment date- no ASA, Delta Mainline, Delta ticket Counter, CMR, etc. For one split second it looked to me like one company- oh well I hope we can get the furloughs back in the air. I still think that if DCI would quickly rid the portfolio of contract carriers there would be plenty of flying for Delta, ASA, CMR. Fly safe- Wil

 

[Chairman]

Who is UALALPA looking out for. They want there pilots in the right seat of the 70 seaters. Fine but our first one doesn't show up until feb or march. That is 6 or 7 months of UAL pilots sitting on the street. IF agreed to we could put them in classes starting now and get them off the street. Now first year pay is hard to swallow but beats sitting on your couch.