Skywest sez this about UAL J4J.....

[ADG]

Hey Gobi,


When it comes to seniority issues, our pilots are unified and I believe this has influenced managment. You are right though, we are non-union and I sometimes wonder how much our managment regrets not signing a deal with US Air. The point is when confronted with certain issues we have done well, perhaps better than union carriers. Who do we credit? I would hope the pilots had some say.

Anyway, i do not want to get into a union vs. anti-union thread, we do that enough on our company forums, but I understand your post and appreciate your view point. In fact, I understand your view point enough to have already signed and sent a UPA card, months ago. I too want a legal binding contract, this is where our managent has failed us. Many at our company, however, believe this is the "kiss of death" so good luck trying to convince the rest of the crew.

Back to the subject. 70 seat RJ's at SkyWest. I know our managment has wanted these things for a very long time. It will be interesting to see what kinda deal we actually stirke.

ADG

 

[surplus1]

OK, for the uninformed (that's me) please tell us what is UPA?

 

[Flooder305]

UPA = Union Drive at Skywest

UPA is the "Unified Pilots Assoc." that has been attempting a Union drive/vote at Skywest. It hasn't happened yet, however they have brought about some beneficial pressures to SAPA our current representatives. Boo United for trying to bully, yeah management for having a pair!

 

[surplus1]

Re: UPA = Union Drive at Skywest

UPA is the "Unified Pilots Assoc." that has been attempting a Union drive/vote at Skywest. It hasn't happened yet, however they have brought about some beneficial pressures to SAPA our current representatives. Boo United for trying to bully, yeah management for having a pair!

Thanks. It probably would be nice if you guys had something to guarantee the agreements you have with your Company. They should not object if their intentions are truly what they seem to be.

The idea of an in-house of your own seems far better than a hook up with some big bureaucracy that has its own agenda and no interest whatever in your interests.

Of course you won't have the reputed "political clout" and "resources" of the big DC outfit, but what good are political clout and resources when they are only used against you?

I wish you the best.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey Gobi,
When it comes to seniority issues, our pilots are unified and I believe this has influenced managment. You are right though, we are non-union and I sometimes wonder how much our managment regrets not signing a deal with US Air. The point is when confronted with certain issues we have done well, perhaps better than union carriers. Who do we credit? I would hope the pilots had some say.

ADG, you are correct in one respect in as much as you guys are unified and this may have played (SOME) role in mgt's decision making at your company. As pilots I am with you on not violating the seniority system, but now you need to take off your pilot hat for a moment and place on a management cap. Management is at the will of it's board who are in turn run by it's share holders now as a share holder I could care less if the seniority system is violated as long as I continue to make money on those shares!!!

Now enter UAL who wants to place larger a/c on the property where I own shares and place it's furloughed pilots in those a/c I again as a share holder have questions 1st WILL MY SHARES INCREASE IN VALUE???? if the answer is yes, then wheither you have a union or not won't matter because any agreement you have can and will most likely be violated all in the name of making the company more profitable. Now you can and will mostly likely file for arbitration and will likely win but that would take years and by then the pilots in question would have likely gone back to the main line...

Moral of this story, pilot to pilot i'm with you 100%... Shareholder to pilot I could care less about your agreement with management, just show me the money...

WD.

 

[reno]

Violating the seniority system at SkyWest would be a great way to add to the push to get a union on property. I don't think that's what management wants or intends!

 

[surplus1]

Shareholder to pilot I could care less about your agreement with management, just show me the money...

WD.

Pilot to shareholder ...... violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money. Additionally the money you thought you had will become a pipe dream. You see shareholder, my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first. Mr. shareholder we can both see the money if we work together, but if you take my money and give it to someone else, there will be no winners. "Thou shall not steal."

Most things are negotiable. Giving my seniority to someone else, merely because he wants it, should not be one of them. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods."

 

[WhiteCloud]

Pilot to shareholder ...... violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money. Additionally the money you thought you had will become a pipe dream. You see shareholder, my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first. Mr. shareholder we can both see the money if we work together, but if you take my money and give it to someone else, there will be no winners. "Thou shall not steal."

Most things are negotiable. Giving my seniority to someone else, merely because he wants it, should not be one of them. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods."

Why not ask them to provide preferential job opportunities for Skywest pilots when hiring resumes as part of the deal? OK....UAL may never hire again but it would be good to see if they think you are "good enough" to fly with them.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Pilot to shareholder ...... violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money. Additionally the money you thought you had will become a pipe dream. You see shareholder, my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first. Mr. shareholder we can both see the money if we work together, but if you take my money and give it to someone else, there will be no winners. "Thou shall not steal."

Most things are negotiable. Giving my seniority to someone else, merely because he wants it, should not be one of them. "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods."

Surplus1,

Man you obviously mistook what I said as my feelings. I can assure you the opposite is true. Lets look at what you have just stated and see where this plane goes. you said "my seniority = my family''s money and guess who comes first." I can tell you this (employee!!!) do it or be replaced!!!!! Mesa/freedom has shown that there are plenty of people out there willing to do what ever it takes to put on a uniform and profess "I'm a real live airlinepilot"
Point two, "violate my seniority and I can guarantee that you wont be shown any new money". Oh but I will this is a business and your overall happiness is really a back issue it's about making money and the only thing you can do to really hurt the process is quit all of a sudden and not just you, it would take enough that most flights would have to be cancelled due to lack of crews, and there just isn't that much unity anywhere when you start to tell a person that he/she can't make that mortgage payment. We are now in the age of let's start an alter ego which takes me back to point number 1, many willing to do what you won't!!!

Surplus1, I am a pilot as well and I don't agree with this whole super seniority crap, but when you speak of big business you must understand that corporations are built on the blood,sweat and tears of others. They rob, steal, lie and even kill all in the name of profit margins. Here is just a small example of this kind of mentality. Enron, worldcom, sprint just to name a few. I will leave you with this, always have a backup plan!!!!

WD.

 

[Splert]

WD,

Thanks for the lesson in Community College Business 001a.

What is your point?

UAL furloughs will be treated like new employees. The only difference is that they will be hired the old fashion way: ie. connections. They will be hired and placed at the bottom of the list. Bottom of the list. List at the bottom.

Yes but management is bad and shareholders are greedy and you have no unity and my mother can kick your momma’s but in a beauty contest and UAL furloughed pilots will be hired and placed at the bottom of the seniority list and management is bad and shareholders are greedy and you have no unity and my mother can kick your mamma’s butt in a beauty contest and at band camp…

Also, feel free to throw in a period or two per paragraph Captain run-on sentence.

Splert…

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Splert, you were so dam busy trying to be an alpha hotel the you missed the point. Someone stated the "we have unity so that won't happen to this pilot group. I simply pointed out a different perspective................................................. enough periods for teacher??????

WD.

 

[Splert]

W.D.,

After all the perspective in the world the bottom line is that they will be at the bottom of the list.

What else is there? I forgot…if the sunset was in the east things would be different and then the UAL furloughed pilot would be at the bottom of the list.

Management is bad, shareholders are greedy and the UAL furloughed pilots will be at the bottom of the list.

Moving on...

Splert…

 

[General Lee]

Yes, but to fly 70 seaters for United, you will have to play by their rules. If you choose not to, Mesa will. You are lucky that United didn't ask for 5 Capt slots per 70 seat RJ. Face it, Jerry wants the revenue, and at the same time doesn't want you to get ALPA on the property. If he has to choose--he'll go for the revenue. AirWisky has to follow the 70 seater rule, and probably Mesa. Why shouldn't you? It makes sense, and UAL holds the cards. You can always roll the dice and pull an ACA.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Pee_nuss]

Then no 70's i guess. I could give a crap less if we fly 70's or not, it doesn't change our pay. If they do pull some crap, there WILL be a union here within a month. You guys can talk all the bad stuff you want about Skywest, but if you will sell your senority list out, man.....

Nuss

 

[Russ]

Gen Lee
What is the 70 seat rule you mentioned as it applies to Wisky?