Skywest, Sapa and pressuring pilots to fly

[Texx]

I agree, but its a lot easier to walk around with brass balls when you know someone has your back.

1 call that's all.....The FAA!

 

[jeroom]

Sad, but that is exactly what would happen....

It's like accepting to take a defered APU A/C in the middle of the summer, you don't get an air cart, you board the peeps, and one of them expire while still at the gate because of the heat....well, you did the company a favor by taking the A/C. Now you will be on your own with this case...at the court...

 

[cale42]

Fatigued is fatigued..

we are talking FAR's here had nothing to do with union representation.

Once the words "I'm fatigued" are on a recorded line you hang up and go home.. company says ANYTHING other than thanks for the call and the next call is too the POI.

DONE.

Sounds like the situation explained above though the captain "threatened" fatigue which is different. If this schedule isn't modified we may need to call fatigued.. often times an effective way of dealing with crew scheduling. If they call your bluff and make you fly it though you either fly one more leg and then actually call fatigued or suck it up and finish the day..

cale

 

[XPOO]

Nevermind

 

[Max Q]

Fatigued is fatigued..

we are talking FAR's here had nothing to do with union representation.

Once the words "I'm fatigued" are on a recorded line you hang up and go home.. company says ANYTHING other than thanks for the call and the next call is too the POI.

DONE...

Not to split hairs here but from an FAR standpoint, they were legal to start AND they finished "legally" as well. Was FAR 121.471 written in full consideration of the well being of the pilot?

-Brett

 

[cale42]

I'm talking 61.53.. " Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would
make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical
certificate necessary for the pilot operation"

In this day and age of medical research.. fatigue is certainly considered a medical condition. It's just like the FAA can go after you and violate you if you do something stupid and then claim you were sick. If you fly in a condition that you judge yourself unsafe to fly in, be it illness or fatigue you violate the FAR's. Sure 99.99% of the time you get away with it and nothing happens.. but if something does happen you better beleive the FAA will slap your ass with flying unfit.

cale

 

[Mookie]

the insidious nature of fatigue is that you really dont know how out of it you are until you get into trouble. it's like the guy who has four beers and drinks a glass of water and pops a piece of gum and thinks they are cool to drive. YOU ARE IMPAIRED!!! 99.99% you will get away with it...but if you don't...then you'll be lucky if you just bend a piece of metal or bust and altitude and not kill yourself and however many people are behind you.

stop "threatening" to call in fatigued...just do it...

Mookie

 

[Max Q]

Cale42: Fatigue is not a "medical condition" as far as FAR 67 is concerned, therefore 61.53 (a) 1. is irrelevant. I am not trying to be devil's advocate here. I am genuinely interested in what FAR you are referring to that is protecting you from flying unfit and unable to perform your duties.

-Brett

 

[Skywest Pylot]

......................

 

[Soverytired]

Dare I say it- ALPA would have you covered.

So would the FAA and any decent aviation / wrongful termination attorney.

Hell, just ask the pressuring chief pilot to get the POI in on the discussion and see if he changes his tune.


But that wouldn't cost your respective pilot group a collective millions of dollars per year, now would it?

 

[DashTrash400]

So would the FAA and any decent aviation / wrongful termination attorney.

Hell, just ask the pressuring chief pilot to get the POI in on the discussion and see if he changes his tune.


But that wouldn't cost your respective pilot group a collective millions of dollars per year, now would it?

Lord knows the FAA has the pilot's interests in mind. They really stuck one to management with 121.471, didn't they!?

 

[BoilerUP]

Cale42: Fatigue is not a "medical condition" as far as FAR 67 is concerned, therefore 61.53 (a) 1. is irrelevant. I am not trying to be devil's advocate here. I am genuinely interested in what FAR you are referring to that is protecting you from flying unfit and unable to perform your duties.

-Brett

Fatigue might not necessarily be defined by FAR 67, but I strongly disagree that it makes 61.53(a) irrelevant.

Sec. 67.113 General medical condition.

The general medical standards for a first-class airman medical
certificate are:
(b) No other organic, functional, or structural disease, defect, or
limitation that the Federal Air Surgeon, based on the case history and
appropriate, qualified medical judgment relating to the condition
involved, finds--
(1) Makes the person unable to safely perform the duties or exercise
the privileges of the airman certificate applied for or held

I'm no doctor...but I'd say that fatigue most certainly is a functional defect or limitation that would make one unable to safely perform the duties or exercise the privileges of the airman certificate held.

As such, flying while fatigued puts you in direct violation 61.53, not to mention anything about 91.13. Or the FOM at most airlines which states that "Safety is the #1 priority" or a similar statement.

 

[PCL_128]

So would the FAA and any decent aviation / wrongful termination attorney.

With ALPA, you wouldn't have to deal with a wrongful termination attorney, because a guy like myself or John Pennekamp would have stormed into the CP's office and taken care of it on the spot. The idea that anyone is even tasked with explaining themselves for a fatigue call is asinine. And no, counting on the FAA to defend you is not a smart move. Depending on their own political connections with an airline or a specific CP, you could find out that the POI isn't really interested in defending you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Aviation or wrongful termination attorney?

Yeah right.... We had a pilot get fired (arrogant pilot he was, thought he was infailable)... he went out shopping for an outside lawyer... Our CA (contract administrator...ie. an ALPA attorney) called him up and the entertainment and assurance that ALPA CA's are quality products was affirmed!

As soon as the high dollar outside lawyer realized he was amatuer hour, you could tell how he switched from badass showman "shark" lawyer to "I better shut up and learn what I can about the RLA and the way things are done in Title 49 of the CFR."

Our ALPA lawyer was nothing like a showman. He was hard core unionist that believes in labor. Oh these ALPA CAs can easily go out in the "real" market and make bank, but they are unionist. And they are the Best. I'm glad we have them...

 

[Skywest Pylot]

This is not the first time I have heard of our pilots getting pressured to fly while fatigued. Caution: Do not get on the wrong persons bad side. You are an AT WILL employee. Nobody's got your back!