Skywest Rumor??

[Socalplt]

NO, you've got it all wrong. We want to fly the 717 at 50 seat wages!


Do you really think the pilots would propose flying larger aircraft for the same rate?

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Not quite...

First of all, we don't have an in house union. We have both: 1) An uncertified representative group (SAPA) that works with management on typicl issues relative to labor/management relations, and 2) A union drive that is sponsored by a completely different group (Unified Pilot's Association).

Second, neither party above, nor management, has proposed we fly 70/90 seaters at 50-seat pay rates. Our CEO and COO have both said they're looking at pricing operating and wage models at the lowest price in the industry, but in no way does that imply that we're going to do it for current 50-seat rates. Our VP Ops has always said we get paid appropriately for what we do--that may not be the absolute highest, but the highest consistent with controlled costs. It is silly to assume, and really unprecedented to assume we would be offered, or we would offer, to fly bigger planes that are more profitable for the company at current rates.

One could assume that perhaps a likely scenario would be Comair rates minus a couple percent for the 70-seaters, or a revised scheduled based on a reasonable multiple for 90-seaters. With capacity increasing 40% and 80% respectively, we could expect to see maybe 8-10% raise in the first aircraft upsizing, and another 8-10% raise for the second. Both would put us a wee below competitors, but still (some would argue) good wages for the type aircraft. A 20% raise for a 80% increase in capacity makes good financial sense for the company and fattens pilots' wallets, and allows operating efficiencies exponential to growth.

I've personally submitted a revised pay schedule (including proposed scales for even larger aircraft) to both our SAPA reps and senior check airmen (that they may hobnob with top management), and the feedback I've gotten so far is that the proposals are not out of line with management's thoughts of proposed rates. Of course, this is all a moot point until we at least take the first step and order a larger plane--that has not happened yet so this is all still very notional.

 

[sleepy]

Re: Not quite...

First of all, we don't have an in house union. We have both: 1) An uncertified representative group (SAPA) that works with management on typicl issues relative to labor/management relations, and 2) A union drive that is sponsored by a completely different group (Unified Pilot's Association).

Second, neither party above, nor management, has proposed we fly 70/90 seaters at 50-seat pay rates. Our CEO and COO have both said they're looking at pricing operating and wage models at the lowest price in the industry, but in no way does that imply that we're going to do it for current 50-seat rates. Our VP Ops has always said we get paid appropriately for what we do--that may not be the absolute highest, but the highest consistent with controlled costs. It is silly to assume, and really unprecedented to assume we would be offered, or we would offer, to fly bigger planes that are more profitable for the company at current rates.

One could assume that perhaps a likely scenario would be Comair rates minus a couple percent for the 70-seaters, or a revised scheduled based on a reasonable multiple for 90-seaters. With capacity increasing 40% and 80% respectively, we could expect to see maybe 8-10% raise in the first aircraft upsizing, and another 8-10% raise for the second. Both would put us a wee below competitors, but still (some would argue) good wages for the type aircraft. A 20% raise for a 80% increase in capacity makes good financial sense for the company and fattens pilots' wallets, and allows operating efficiencies exponential to growth.

I've personally submitted a revised pay schedule (including proposed scales for even larger aircraft) to both our SAPA reps and senior check airmen (that they may hobnob with top management), and the feedback I've gotten so far is that the proposals are not out of line with management's thoughts of proposed rates. Of course, this is all a moot point until we at least take the first step and order a larger plane--that has not happened yet so this is all still very notional.

So, someone from your pilot group did not tell a newhire class that your pilots are looking to under-cut ASA/Comair 70 seat pay rates in order to get the aircraft?

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Your point?

Sleepy --

So do you want to know if we're going to fly 70+ seaters for 50-seat wages (no) or are we going to "under-cut" ASA/Comair rates to get new planes (one could assume). You've asked two questions and both were answered previously.

I can sort of see your writing on the wall. This is not nearly akin to a Mesa/Freedom deal, nor is it relevent that we are currently non-union. Southwest Airlines took pay freezes in 1994, in lieu of stock option plan--even though the airline was already more profitable than most--in order to maintain their current cost structure making them more flexible, and competitive, in their planned growth years. They were both unionized and "undercutting" all the majors at the time

SkyWest has consistently had per hour wages that are a smidgen less than Comair and ASA (post strike, aricraft specific) or any other airline we are competing directly with. The pilots here are willing to make a little less per hour in exchange for profit sharing, stock options, a decent 401k, decent work rules and job security.

There is a difference between a dynamic well-managed airline with decent labor/management relations (not great, but not in the toilet), and an airline with antogonistic labor/management factions. We are the former where a lot of our competitors are the latter. There is certainly more to a competitive product than simply price, or cost, and in our case, there is more to our costs than simply $$/hr rates. Welcome to the market economy.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Your point?

We are the former where a lot of our competitors are the latter. There is certainly more to a competitive product than simply price, or cost, and in our case, there is more to our costs than simply $$/hr rates.

Such as paying your newhires for training and springing for a hotel room while they are there, for example???

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Yup.

In short, since your question addresses two factors, yes and no. Mine is not to defend management position only to make light of all factors.

 

[General Lee]

Hey, remember that all of DCI can only fly 57 70 seaters period---TOTAL. IF anyone is going to get more 70 seaters it will be the furloughed Delta pilots---and a subsidiary named DANCE. The catchy slogan can be, "Come Dance your Pants off to New York Baby!!!" I like it.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Hm.

Gen Lee,

You seem to have a one-track mind. Since you're so wise, I'm sure you realize only 50% of SKYW revenue comes Delta. Suppose SKYW told Delta we didn't want to do anymore DCI flying (DAL picks up the 55 RJs we have (per the agreement we have), inlcuding the costs), since we intend to focus on the new United prospects or even venture into the LCC arena ourselves. DCI would then have an additional 55 RJs on its hands (immediately) to finance and staff. You could put all the furloughed guys in that you wanted, but you couldn't do it cost effectively so long as DALPA keeps its same mindset. DALPA will not drive the future of our airline...

 

[SmoovFlight]

Umm...

Is it true SkyWest is getting 777's?

 

[sleepy]

Re: Your point?

Sleepy --

So do you want to know if we're going to fly 70+ seaters for 50-seat wages (no) or are we going to "under-cut" ASA/Comair rates to get new planes (one could assume). You've asked two questions and both were answered previously.

I can sort of see your writing on the wall. This is not nearly akin to a Mesa/Freedom deal, nor is it relevent that we are currently non-union. Southwest Airlines took pay freezes in 1994, in lieu of stock option plan--even though the airline was already more profitable than most--in order to maintain their current cost structure making them more flexible, and competitive, in their planned growth years. They were both unionized and "undercutting" all the majors at the time

SkyWest has consistently had per hour wages that are a smidgen less than Comair and ASA (post strike, aricraft specific) or any other airline we are competing directly with. The pilots here are willing to make a little less per hour in exchange for profit sharing, stock options, a decent 401k, decent work rules and job security.

There is a difference between a dynamic well-managed airline with decent labor/management relations (not great, but not in the toilet), and an airline with antogonistic labor/management factions. We are the former where a lot of our competitors are the latter. There is certainly more to a competitive product than simply price, or cost, and in our case, there is more to our costs than simply $$/hr rates. Welcome to the market economy.

No Sir,
The question I asked, that was not answered is, did a rep from your pilot group tell a recent new-hire class that your pilots were going to propose to fly DCI CRJ-700 aircraft for you current 50 seat rate in order to under-cut Comair and ASA and take our aircraft? That is the question that has not been answered.

 

[Ben Dover]

Re: Not quite...

First of all, we don't have an in house union. We have both: 1) An uncertified representative group (SAPA) that works with management on typicl issues relative to labor/management relations, and 2) A union drive that is sponsored by a completely different group (Unified Pilot's Association).

Second, neither party above, nor management, has proposed we fly 70/90 seaters at 50-seat pay rates.

Skywrjguy,

I'm not trying to stir the pot, BUT I have spoken with the president of SAPA (Mr. Abell) and he clearly said that management was proposing exactly that: flying 50 - 90 seat aircraft at the current 50 seat pay. AND, additionally developing a 91 - 130 payscale at some percentage less than SouthWest wages.

Mind you I haven't heard this from mgmt, but most definitely heard from Mr. Abell that this was going to be a mgmt proposal. I suppose it's possible mgmt may have changed their tune, but it was definitely floated as an idea to SAPA/Abell who bounced it off many a line pilot.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Clarifying...

Sleepy --

See my first post, second paragragh. Rumors lead to rherotric which gets us nowhere; your source has been misinformed. Additionally, there are so many people running around with a SAPA title that the exact person may not be very well informed on all topics.

BD --

Nice name. What management is proposing, at least to the best of my knowledge, is a pay freeze of our our current wages at the 50-seat level this summer, negating our yearly fogey and raises. Merely by freezing our wages and eliminating the YOS fogey, our pilot cost will lag 6% behind ASA/CMR. Our 50-seat rates will not change, but that does not mean we are going to fly bigger aircraft for the same money. BH has always said pay for what we work; take a look at Jerry's comments in the I-Share section of SWOL today. I don't think management has really changed their tune, I think people tend to second guess management expectations and begin invalid rumors, or try to infer something out of a statement that was never implied. Jerry has said we will probably have the lowest wages in each category we fly (which likely denotes there will be some other concession given to us)--that in no way means current rates.

 

[120% Torque]

OK, just to add more spice to this already hot topic....On a very recent flight to and from SGU (jumpseat) a certain high ranking SLC FAA FSDO (JW) was quoted as saying that a number of things have come across his desk regarding SkyWest lately, ranging from the addition of 70 and 90 seaters to 717's/737's and now believe it or not 757's! He mentioned this twice and seemed to be serious. He then followed by saying that SkyWest seems to be considering pretty much anything and everything and that he wouldnt be surprized if they added some space shuttles to the list pretty soon. Obviously his last comment was tongue and cheek but it seems he was serious when he mentioned the other airplanes so who knows??? Take this info for what it's worth. As a SkyWest pilot mentioned earlier, SkyWest could go any number of directions depending on market opportunities. Perhaps in 3 years they will be running some 757's or maybe they will be running a single fleet of Piper Chieftains, only time will tell.