Skywest Rumor??

[adperkins]

I heard rumor of Skywest getting A 320's and B 717's? Can anyone verify this?? Also...what is Skywest's hiring status lately?


Thanks

 

[willis]

someone about a week ago asked this same question. Search this forum nd you should be happy

 

[avratdwc]

Yeah, there was a huge discussion over a couple weeks about this issue. General Lee was having a field day with this issue so be careful. I am also interested in hearing about what they are doing with regards to hiring. CYA

 

[Ben Dover]

I heard a different rumor. SkyWest is reportedly going to take their spare cash & buy United, America West, and US Air. Then promptly take the newly aquired equipment to the aluminum recycler and make a 300% return on their investment overnight! I don't believe it, but that's what I heard.

 

[AAWORKER]

I HEARD THEY WERE GOING TO BUY AEROFLOT


JUST KIDDING FELLOW PILOTS I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD PUT SOMETHING FUNNY....BUT WHATEVER SKYWEST DOES I HOPE IT TURNS OUT JUST RIGHT....I PLAN ON APPLYING IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.....I AM JUST HELPING MY FRIEND SO SHE CAN BECOME AN AIRLINE PILOT TOO....SO UNTILL THEN GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND I HOPE TO MEET ANDY NEIL SOON

 

[azpilot]

You are all WRONG! Skywest is buying Delta, American, Northwest, Great Lakes, Mesa, Comair, British Airways and Lufthansa. All aircraft except for the trans-continental are going to be downsized to RJ's with girls from Hooters as flight attendants.

 

[sstearns2]

hiring

Skywest is still interviewing. The March jet class is all F/O's and all but about 7 are newhires. The cancelled the March EMB upgrade class(es?), but the april and beyond classes are still supposed to happen. I'm not sure what's happening with EMB newhire classes. Maybe Andy will post something.

Just about every rumor you can think of is floating around the line right now.

Scott

 

[120% Torque]

Adperkins, just curious what your "sources" were for this rumor? There certainly is no lack of speculation (which can be fun) as to what SkyWest intends to do after the CEO on Jan 14 said that there is huge Vaccuum being created in the 130 seat and less catagorie flying. I know I have heard everything from buying used 737's and operating at Southwest minus 20% to adding additional code shares (Continental EMB flying out of Houston, Jetblue EMB flying out of CA, Northwest RJ flying out of SEA...). Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between. Of course there is always the possiblity that the idea of flying bigger airplanes is just a bluff to get SkyWest pilots to give more concessions after which management will say the bigger airplane flying thing isnt feasable after all. Who Knows??! Certainly if United collapses as it looks like it may I would think an independant operation could happen (pipe down General).

One must be carefull to not get expectations too high if you are or plan on flying there. So the story goes that back in the mid eighties SkyWest had identified some flying possiblities with L1011's off the west coast to Hawaii and you can imagine this got the attention of guys flying Metros at the time. I even heard the rumor had validity in that SkyWest management had actually started discussions with someone who had a few L1011's laying around. Of course as we all know now nothing ever came of it.

Heres one more bit of speculation. If the stories I heard are true (help me out here Comair guys) when Comair was flying independantly (not owned by Delta but codesharing with Delta) they were pretty much kicking butt and making tons of money out of Cinci. Well, they started toying around with the idea of flying 737's independantly. Delta basically said Whoooa there boys we dont like that idea too much, go ahead and forget about flying those bigger airplanes and just do what we assign you. Comair then purportedly said "guess what? We pretty much own a lot of the flying going out of Cinci and frankly we could make money flying independenly, you need us more than we need you." So the story goes that soon after this a deal was made for Delta to purchase and therefore better control the operations of Comair. What does this story have to do with SkyWest. Maybe some shrewd SkyWest managers remember the way that story played out so they leak some info out to the aviation community that they are looking at bigger airplanes and possibly flying them independantly IF Delta doesnt lock into another contract and goes to Mesa for cheaper. Now Delta must think of the repercussions of not only losing a quality product but also having to compete with another so called low cost carrier. In other words, maybe SkyWest is trying to force the issue a little bit letting Delta know what the repercussions could be if they cancle with SkyWest.

Personally I would like to see SkyWest break free and fly bigger airplanes independantly. They have the cash (over 500 million in the bank just sitting there) and the resources out west to grab a chunk of United assets at pennies on the dollar (not so much for airplanes but for gates and other operational assets) and flying should United fall to chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Lastly, I heard the CEO was on the jumpseat chatting with a couple pilots last week and said an announcement would be made in the near future but did not indicate exactly what that was. After all the hype it will probably be something like "we are getting five seventy seat RJ's and flying them for United". After all the speculation some might take it as a letdown. We shall see. If you work for Skywest, hope for the best, prepare for the worst!

 

[General Lee]

One of my friends who was in the last new hire class had a senior manager come in and talk about the future. He said that there was a possibility that they could drop all RJ flying, park them, and buy 737's etc to fly new-risk flying. When asked how many pilots they would need---he said only 300 total. Why would he say this to a new hire class? I do not know. He said that Delta has been trying to get them to cut about $40 million off their fees, and if they do not they could get someone like Mesa to do it. United is currently trying to cut their fees. The other rumor abound is that Skywest would offer E120 services for Continental in IAH and throughout Florida---taking some Gulfstream Airlines routes. I guess some of the jet routes in IAH---like Laredo, Kilieen, and Waco etc aren't profitable with Emb-135 jets. Some of the Florida routes could be more profitable with E120's instead of BE-1900's.
I don't know about the trimming of pilots down to 300 total, but I believe that senior management is getting upset with all of the jerking around from Delta and United. Hey, I have a better idea---let's just cut the Delta pilots' wages and that would save everything!!! Yeah, right.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Heres one more bit of speculation. If the stories I heard are true (help me out here Comair guys) when Comair was flying independantly (not owned by Delta but codesharing with Delta) they were pretty much kicking butt and making tons of money out of Cinci. Well, they started toying around with the idea of flying 737's independantly. Delta basically said Whoooa there boys we dont like that idea too much, go ahead and forget about flying those bigger airplanes and just do what we assign you. Comair then purportedly said "guess what? We pretty much own a lot of the flying going out of Cinci and frankly we could make money flying independenly, you need us more than we need you." So the story goes that soon after this a deal was made for Delta to purchase and therefore better control the operations of Comair. What does this story have to do with SkyWest?

Well my friend, I don't know what that story has to do with Skywest, but I can assure you it has nothing at all to do with Comair. Comair never "toyed with the idea of flying 737s independently" or otherwise and that had nothing to do with our unfortunate acquisition by Delta. You said it was a "story" and you were right.

Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see ... and you still won't really know what's going on.

 

[120% Torque]

Thanks friend, I stand corrected. What this apparent unvalid story could have had to do with SkyWest is self explanitory. Reread what was written.

 

[Col.Hogan]

Skywest is still interviewing. The March jet class is all F/O's and all but about 7 are newhires. The cancelled the March EMB upgrade class(es?), but the april and beyond classes are still supposed to happen. I'm not sure what's happening with EMB newhire classes. Maybe Andy will post something.

Just about every rumor you can think of is floating around the line right now.

Scott
____________________________________________________
I have a buddy in an EMB class March 31st - HOG.

 

[skyrider]

Here's a little ditty to add to the mix

UAL Mulls Hub Closures in Reorganization
Monday February 24, 7:55 pm ET
By Erik Ahlberg

CHICAGO -- An executive for UAL Corp. (NYSE:UAL - News) said Monday that the
airline is mulling the closure of its hubs in Los Angeles, Denver and Washington as part
of its reorganization plan.

Senior Vice President Gregory T.
Taylor said in court testimony that
UAL, parent of United Airlines, was
asked by its board of directors to
consider the hub closures as an
alternative. The board also asked
the company to look into the
possible sale of the airline's Pacific
operations, he said.

 

[Mookie]

General Lee,

I heard the same thing from a friend of mine in the same class. It was NOT a manager, it was a SAPA rep, and his comments were completely misinterpreted regarding the 737 and 300 pilot thing. It was an answer to a worst case scenario situation question from a newhire, and he was just being honest. I know, b/c I called the Rep who made the statement the next day to clarify it personally. But, he also said that "everything is on the table now." take that for what it's worth.

As far as all of the other rumors....who knows.....I'm still livin' the dream.

Mookie

 

[sleepy]

The rumour we are hearing at ASA is that the Skywest in-house union is proposing to Skywest management that they will fly 70 and 90 seat aircraft for 50 seat wages. This will allow them to take all of the 70 aircraft from ASA and Comair.

 

[Socalplt]

NO, you've got it all wrong. We want to fly the 717 at 50 seat wages!


Do you really think the pilots would propose flying larger aircraft for the same rate?

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Not quite...

First of all, we don't have an in house union. We have both: 1) An uncertified representative group (SAPA) that works with management on typicl issues relative to labor/management relations, and 2) A union drive that is sponsored by a completely different group (Unified Pilot's Association).

Second, neither party above, nor management, has proposed we fly 70/90 seaters at 50-seat pay rates. Our CEO and COO have both said they're looking at pricing operating and wage models at the lowest price in the industry, but in no way does that imply that we're going to do it for current 50-seat rates. Our VP Ops has always said we get paid appropriately for what we do--that may not be the absolute highest, but the highest consistent with controlled costs. It is silly to assume, and really unprecedented to assume we would be offered, or we would offer, to fly bigger planes that are more profitable for the company at current rates.

One could assume that perhaps a likely scenario would be Comair rates minus a couple percent for the 70-seaters, or a revised scheduled based on a reasonable multiple for 90-seaters. With capacity increasing 40% and 80% respectively, we could expect to see maybe 8-10% raise in the first aircraft upsizing, and another 8-10% raise for the second. Both would put us a wee below competitors, but still (some would argue) good wages for the type aircraft. A 20% raise for a 80% increase in capacity makes good financial sense for the company and fattens pilots' wallets, and allows operating efficiencies exponential to growth.

I've personally submitted a revised pay schedule (including proposed scales for even larger aircraft) to both our SAPA reps and senior check airmen (that they may hobnob with top management), and the feedback I've gotten so far is that the proposals are not out of line with management's thoughts of proposed rates. Of course, this is all a moot point until we at least take the first step and order a larger plane--that has not happened yet so this is all still very notional.

 

[sleepy]

Re: Not quite...

First of all, we don't have an in house union. We have both: 1) An uncertified representative group (SAPA) that works with management on typicl issues relative to labor/management relations, and 2) A union drive that is sponsored by a completely different group (Unified Pilot's Association).

Second, neither party above, nor management, has proposed we fly 70/90 seaters at 50-seat pay rates. Our CEO and COO have both said they're looking at pricing operating and wage models at the lowest price in the industry, but in no way does that imply that we're going to do it for current 50-seat rates. Our VP Ops has always said we get paid appropriately for what we do--that may not be the absolute highest, but the highest consistent with controlled costs. It is silly to assume, and really unprecedented to assume we would be offered, or we would offer, to fly bigger planes that are more profitable for the company at current rates.

One could assume that perhaps a likely scenario would be Comair rates minus a couple percent for the 70-seaters, or a revised scheduled based on a reasonable multiple for 90-seaters. With capacity increasing 40% and 80% respectively, we could expect to see maybe 8-10% raise in the first aircraft upsizing, and another 8-10% raise for the second. Both would put us a wee below competitors, but still (some would argue) good wages for the type aircraft. A 20% raise for a 80% increase in capacity makes good financial sense for the company and fattens pilots' wallets, and allows operating efficiencies exponential to growth.

I've personally submitted a revised pay schedule (including proposed scales for even larger aircraft) to both our SAPA reps and senior check airmen (that they may hobnob with top management), and the feedback I've gotten so far is that the proposals are not out of line with management's thoughts of proposed rates. Of course, this is all a moot point until we at least take the first step and order a larger plane--that has not happened yet so this is all still very notional.

So, someone from your pilot group did not tell a newhire class that your pilots are looking to under-cut ASA/Comair 70 seat pay rates in order to get the aircraft?

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Your point?

Sleepy --

So do you want to know if we're going to fly 70+ seaters for 50-seat wages (no) or are we going to "under-cut" ASA/Comair rates to get new planes (one could assume). You've asked two questions and both were answered previously.

I can sort of see your writing on the wall. This is not nearly akin to a Mesa/Freedom deal, nor is it relevent that we are currently non-union. Southwest Airlines took pay freezes in 1994, in lieu of stock option plan--even though the airline was already more profitable than most--in order to maintain their current cost structure making them more flexible, and competitive, in their planned growth years. They were both unionized and "undercutting" all the majors at the time

SkyWest has consistently had per hour wages that are a smidgen less than Comair and ASA (post strike, aricraft specific) or any other airline we are competing directly with. The pilots here are willing to make a little less per hour in exchange for profit sharing, stock options, a decent 401k, decent work rules and job security.

There is a difference between a dynamic well-managed airline with decent labor/management relations (not great, but not in the toilet), and an airline with antogonistic labor/management factions. We are the former where a lot of our competitors are the latter. There is certainly more to a competitive product than simply price, or cost, and in our case, there is more to our costs than simply $$/hr rates. Welcome to the market economy.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Your point?

We are the former where a lot of our competitors are the latter. There is certainly more to a competitive product than simply price, or cost, and in our case, there is more to our costs than simply $$/hr rates.

Such as paying your newhires for training and springing for a hotel room while they are there, for example???

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Yup.

In short, since your question addresses two factors, yes and no. Mine is not to defend management position only to make light of all factors.

 

[General Lee]

Hey, remember that all of DCI can only fly 57 70 seaters period---TOTAL. IF anyone is going to get more 70 seaters it will be the furloughed Delta pilots---and a subsidiary named DANCE. The catchy slogan can be, "Come Dance your Pants off to New York Baby!!!" I like it.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Hm.

Gen Lee,

You seem to have a one-track mind. Since you're so wise, I'm sure you realize only 50% of SKYW revenue comes Delta. Suppose SKYW told Delta we didn't want to do anymore DCI flying (DAL picks up the 55 RJs we have (per the agreement we have), inlcuding the costs), since we intend to focus on the new United prospects or even venture into the LCC arena ourselves. DCI would then have an additional 55 RJs on its hands (immediately) to finance and staff. You could put all the furloughed guys in that you wanted, but you couldn't do it cost effectively so long as DALPA keeps its same mindset. DALPA will not drive the future of our airline...

 

[SmoovFlight]

Umm...

Is it true SkyWest is getting 777's?

 

[sleepy]

Re: Your point?

Sleepy --

So do you want to know if we're going to fly 70+ seaters for 50-seat wages (no) or are we going to "under-cut" ASA/Comair rates to get new planes (one could assume). You've asked two questions and both were answered previously.

I can sort of see your writing on the wall. This is not nearly akin to a Mesa/Freedom deal, nor is it relevent that we are currently non-union. Southwest Airlines took pay freezes in 1994, in lieu of stock option plan--even though the airline was already more profitable than most--in order to maintain their current cost structure making them more flexible, and competitive, in their planned growth years. They were both unionized and "undercutting" all the majors at the time

SkyWest has consistently had per hour wages that are a smidgen less than Comair and ASA (post strike, aricraft specific) or any other airline we are competing directly with. The pilots here are willing to make a little less per hour in exchange for profit sharing, stock options, a decent 401k, decent work rules and job security.

There is a difference between a dynamic well-managed airline with decent labor/management relations (not great, but not in the toilet), and an airline with antogonistic labor/management factions. We are the former where a lot of our competitors are the latter. There is certainly more to a competitive product than simply price, or cost, and in our case, there is more to our costs than simply $$/hr rates. Welcome to the market economy.

No Sir,
The question I asked, that was not answered is, did a rep from your pilot group tell a recent new-hire class that your pilots were going to propose to fly DCI CRJ-700 aircraft for you current 50 seat rate in order to under-cut Comair and ASA and take our aircraft? That is the question that has not been answered.

 

[Ben Dover]

Re: Not quite...

First of all, we don't have an in house union. We have both: 1) An uncertified representative group (SAPA) that works with management on typicl issues relative to labor/management relations, and 2) A union drive that is sponsored by a completely different group (Unified Pilot's Association).

Second, neither party above, nor management, has proposed we fly 70/90 seaters at 50-seat pay rates.

Skywrjguy,

I'm not trying to stir the pot, BUT I have spoken with the president of SAPA (Mr. Abell) and he clearly said that management was proposing exactly that: flying 50 - 90 seat aircraft at the current 50 seat pay. AND, additionally developing a 91 - 130 payscale at some percentage less than SouthWest wages.

Mind you I haven't heard this from mgmt, but most definitely heard from Mr. Abell that this was going to be a mgmt proposal. I suppose it's possible mgmt may have changed their tune, but it was definitely floated as an idea to SAPA/Abell who bounced it off many a line pilot.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Clarifying...

Sleepy --

See my first post, second paragragh. Rumors lead to rherotric which gets us nowhere; your source has been misinformed. Additionally, there are so many people running around with a SAPA title that the exact person may not be very well informed on all topics.

BD --

Nice name. What management is proposing, at least to the best of my knowledge, is a pay freeze of our our current wages at the 50-seat level this summer, negating our yearly fogey and raises. Merely by freezing our wages and eliminating the YOS fogey, our pilot cost will lag 6% behind ASA/CMR. Our 50-seat rates will not change, but that does not mean we are going to fly bigger aircraft for the same money. BH has always said pay for what we work; take a look at Jerry's comments in the I-Share section of SWOL today. I don't think management has really changed their tune, I think people tend to second guess management expectations and begin invalid rumors, or try to infer something out of a statement that was never implied. Jerry has said we will probably have the lowest wages in each category we fly (which likely denotes there will be some other concession given to us)--that in no way means current rates.

 

[120% Torque]

OK, just to add more spice to this already hot topic....On a very recent flight to and from SGU (jumpseat) a certain high ranking SLC FAA FSDO (JW) was quoted as saying that a number of things have come across his desk regarding SkyWest lately, ranging from the addition of 70 and 90 seaters to 717's/737's and now believe it or not 757's! He mentioned this twice and seemed to be serious. He then followed by saying that SkyWest seems to be considering pretty much anything and everything and that he wouldnt be surprized if they added some space shuttles to the list pretty soon. Obviously his last comment was tongue and cheek but it seems he was serious when he mentioned the other airplanes so who knows??? Take this info for what it's worth. As a SkyWest pilot mentioned earlier, SkyWest could go any number of directions depending on market opportunities. Perhaps in 3 years they will be running some 757's or maybe they will be running a single fleet of Piper Chieftains, only time will tell.