SkyWest purchases 22 CR7's for DLC

[labbats]

The reason your payrates are suppressed is because you have thousands of 23 year old snot nosed kids with shiny jet syndrome willing to sell their soul just to get in the right seat of an RJ. For every RJ pilot that states "enough is enough" and leaves the industry all together there are probably 100 willing to take his or her place.

Supply and demand. It is as simple as that.

Please dont take this the wrong way. I flew for the regionals for almost 4 years before I was hired at AA. I totally understand your concerns, frustrations, and your anger. I am just trying to state what is going on in the industry.

You've been out of the loop long enough to start listening and believing what's being said in the AA crewroom. Those thousands of 23 year old snot nosed kids have finished college, instructed for a year or two and most likely flown some freight. They didn't sell their soul to fly an RJ any more than you did to fly a turboprop in your day. It's just that now there's RJs to fly right off the bat instead of turboprops.

 

[Dangerkitty]

You've been out of the loop long enough to start listening and believing what's being said in the AA crewroom. Those thousands of 23 year old snot nosed kids have finished college, instructed for a year or two and most likely flown some freight. They didn't sell their soul to fly an RJ any more than you did to fly a turboprop in your day. It's just that now there's RJs to fly right off the bat instead of turboprops.

You totally missed the point of what I was trying to say.

It still comes down to a supply and demand issue. Simple as that. Too many pilots are willing to sell their soul just to fly a jet. Management knows this and is using it to their benefit.

 

[superjet]

Future of Skywest

Ultimately Skywest Inc. will be a large regional airline with 5-600 RJ's feeding for a 3rd carrier within 5 years. Its a good thing so many young people will be willing to sell there souls to fly a jet.

 

[jehtplane]

You totally missed the point of what I was trying to say.

It still comes down to a supply and demand issue. Simple as that. Too many pilots are willing to sell their soul just to fly a jet. Management knows this and is using it to their benefit.

Nobody is selling their souls, where is that coming from? Is jet blue selling their souls to fly the EMB for those rates? Why is it that "regional pilots" are always sell-outs? Have you seen continental airlines payscale, $30 an hour first year, are they selling their souls? What about the proposed Delta payscale for the EMB's ?yes they have a pension, but for how long? I am in no way bashing any pilot group, but the double standard shiny jet bullsh1t has played itself out. Jets are replacing the turboprops what the hell is so wrong with that? Lets put the blame on the state of the industry where it belongs. It is not 23 year old pilots flying regional jets, if it were 23 year old pilots flying 70-100seat TURBO-PROPS, I seriously doubt we would be having this discussion

 

[DrunkIrishman]

DangerKit-

Our previous generation of pilots started us down this road of "regional" status when they decided they did not want turboprop flying after deregulation. In the decades before that, a pilot went through the military and came out to work for United et al. Now, in some cases, not even the mil pilots can go straight to the majors without a stop at a "regional." Who's fault is this? Not management's for dangling a shiny jet at some teen punk. It was our fault back then and we are reaping what we had sewn today. We still have not pursued bringing regionals together with their trunk carriers. This is to our detriment as pilots. We are all on the same side!

BTW- Folks that work for a currently bankrupt carrier like Delta ought not be casting stones at Independance since they still haven't gone into BK while others have. SWA, JBLU, FEX, feel free.

 

[No Delay]

It shows that the RJ's are too expensive to generate anysort of profit without a Mainline fee for departure revenue model. - Dangerkitty

I always laugh when I hear statements like that. let's see...the majors are losing billions (DAL loses 5 Billion in just a few years). Apparently the 757, 767, 777, 737, etc are too expensive! I just read SKYWEST is getting 22 CR7. How many new airplanes will be at DAL in the next few months?

Surely, someone is running the numbers on these things!

The reason your payrates are suppressed is because you have thousands of 23 year old snot nosed kids with shiny jet syndrome willing to sell their soul just to get in the right seat of an RJ. For every RJ pilot that states "enough is enough" and leaves the industry all together there are probably 100 willing to take his or her place. - Dangerkitty

The career path has been the same for as long as I can remember. Get your ratings, instruct, small corporate / freight, regionals, and then majors. The only thing that has changed is that the regionals are now getting better airplanes. Now, suddenly all the regional pilots are sell-outs??? What was your career path? How much money did you earn while at the regionals?

It drives me crazy when someone travels the same path, finally reaches their goal (majors), and then turns and condemns everyone else who is trying to make it.

I think what we really need is some of you at the majors making $150-200K to say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" and quit!!! There are too many pilots at the majors! You guys are holding up the whole process! You're holding me up, dude!

It's all supply and demand! Too many damn pilots at the majors!

 

[Dangerkitty]

I always laugh when I hear statements like that. let's see...the majors are losing billions (DAL loses 5 Billion in just a few years). Apparently the 757, 767, 777, 737, etc are too expensive! I just read SKYWEST is getting 22 CR7. How many new airplanes will be at DAL in the next few months?Surely, someone is running the numbers on these things!

Compare the cost per seat mile for a B-777 and a 50 seat CRJ. Then tell me which aircraft is more expensive to operate.

The career path has been the same for as long as I can remember. Get your ratings, instruct, small corporate / freight, regionals, and then majors. The only thing that has changed is that the regionals are now getting better airplanes. Now, suddenly all the regional pilots are sell-outs??? What was your career path? How much money did you earn while at the regionals?

I wanted to go to one regional airline and one regional airline only. COEX. When I was hired there Captain upgrades were taking about 4-7 months. Thats why I wanted to go to COEX becuase my slave labor wages would be reduced to a minimum. Granted I was taking a gamble, but sure enough I was holding ATR Captain in under 8 months. First year was ugly but after that I was making an OK amount of money (45k-50k). Plus when our Contract finally was passed I was able to cash a $15k retro pay check. When I left COEX I was clearing about $70K-$75K.

It drives me crazy when someone travels the same path, finally reaches their goal (majors), and then turns and condemns everyone else who is trying to make it.

Tell me where I have condemed any regional pilot. Sorry to tell you this but if Airline Managements around the country were begging for pilots the pilot salaries would not be so far depressed. Once again this is Economics 101.
If this reality hurts your feelings then again I am very sorry.

 

[Dangerkitty]

DangerKit-

Our previous generation of pilots started us down this road of "regional" status when they decided they did not want turboprop flying after deregulation. In the decades before that, a pilot went through the military and came out to work for United et al. Now, in some cases, not even the mil pilots can go straight to the majors without a stop at a "regional." Who's fault is this? Not management's for dangling a shiny jet at some teen punk. It was our fault back then and we are reaping what we had sewn today. We still have not pursued bringing regionals together with their trunk carriers. This is to our detriment as pilots. We are all on the same side!

BTW- Folks that work for a currently bankrupt carrier like Delta ought not be casting stones at Independance since they still haven't gone into BK while others have. SWA, JBLU, FEX, feel free.

It's the fault of ALL the Major Airlines Unions (ALPA and the APA) that the RJ flying is not owned by the major carriers. RJ's should be flown by you and all the other RJ pilots out there under mainline contracts, flying for mainline carriers, making mainline pay and benefits.

Problem is if Michael Boyd is right. (Say what you will about Boyd but I think he is dead on the money on this one) The RJ glut is about to begin and many of them are about to start making a one way trip to the desert.

 

[Russ]

"Compare the cost per seat mile for a B-777 and a 50 seat CRJ. Then tell me which aircraft is more expensive to operate"

When only 40 people want to go, which is more expensive to operate? Make proper comparisons.

 

[Dangerkitty]

"Compare the cost per seat mile for a B-777 and a 50 seat CRJ. Then tell me which aircraft is more expensive to operate"

When only 40 people want to go, which is more expensive to operate? Make proper comparisons.

I am making proper comparisons. A fully loaded B-777 is quite cheaper per seat mile than a fully loaded CRJ. AA's costs per seat mile on the B-777 has been shown to hover around 8 cents per mile while a Boyd presentation to the APA showed some ASA CRJ's out of ATL sometimes had a CSM of over a dollar.

Plus B-777's are not put on routes where only 40 usually show up to fly. RJ's are put there, where the only way they can make money is with a fee for departure revenue model.

 

[ohplease!]

I am making proper comparisons. A fully loaded B-777 is quite cheaper per seat mile than a fully loaded CRJ. AA's costs per seat mile on the B-777 has been shown to hover around 8 cents per mile while a Boyd presentation to the APA showed some ASA CRJ's out of ATL sometimes had a CSM of over a dollar.

Plus B-777's are not put on routes where only 40 usually show up to fly. RJ's are put there, where the only way they can make money is with a fee for departure revenue model.

Helloooo?!? McFly???? where do you think the passengers for that 777 come from? They don't all live in DFW or some other major hub. To get a true cost, you'll have to add the cost of the RJ getting them to the 777 to the cost of the 777 taking them somewhere.

I suppose we're all in this together...

 

[Tomct]

Dangerkitty....if you talk to the Mainline folks, we are beneath most of them and don't deserve our jobs! I get so sick and tired of hearing all of this crap! For once You, (A Mainline guy) has said it right! The MAJOR pilots are to blame....NOT the RJ! Royer That!

 

[Dangerkitty]

Helloooo?!? McFly???? where do you think the passengers for that 777 come from? They don't all live in DFW or some other major hub. To get a true cost, you'll have to add the cost of the RJ getting them to the 777 to the cost of the 777 taking them somewhere.

I suppose we're all in this together...

This thread has made a turn I never intended it to make.

Read through all my posts. I have never attacked any RJ pilots. However, given the current environment the RJ cannot make money. I have no problem with RJ's providing feed for a B-777. Problem is however, RJ's are doing flying that they were never intended to do. Nowadays you can go coast to coast and never touch a mainline aircraft.

Listen I flew for a regional for 4 years and fully understand the plight of the regional airline pilot. Heck we at Continental Express tried for years to get the CAL mainline pilots to understand that one seniority list was the only way to stop them from losing their jobs to RJ flying. Too bad that they and all the other mainline pilots and their unions were too stupid to realize this.

By the way, War Eagle!!!

 

[Dangerkitty]

Dangerkitty....if you talk to the Mainline folks, we are beneath most of them and don't deserve our jobs! I get so sick and tired of hearing all of this crap! For once You, (A Mainline guy) has said it right! The MAJOR pilots are to blame....NOT the RJ! Royer That!

Thank you, someone who actually reads and understands what I am trying to say.

Back in the mid-90's the APA told AA pilots not to worry about the RJ because we wouldn't want that kind of flying anyway. Well, if those idiots had realized that bringing the Eagle pilots onto the AA seniority list we would be in a much better position today. Both AA and Eagle pilots.

Oh, well no use on crying over spilled milk. Now the whipsawing continues throughout the regionals only adding fuel to the fire when it comes to very supressed salaries for RJ pilots.

 

[Yank McCobb]

You are...no YOU are...nuh-uh YOU are...no YOU are....ad nauseum.

WHO CARES who you feel like you need to blame? In the end, you are still flying your RJ for sh!t wages with no place to go. I guess if you need to blame someone, blame me. I, for one, don't give a crap who you think is at fault, because I am smart enough to know that assigning blame does NOTHING to solve the problem.