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SkyWest pilots to petition NMB...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rogue5
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Rogue5

Adult Swim junkie
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This morning the UPA organizing committee met and unanimously agreed to move forward with our plans to petition the National Mediation Board (NMB). We have selected February 4th as our petition date. This meeting was conducted as a conference call. In attendance were the UPA organizing committee members, two non-member pilot supporters, Mr. Charles Harris from the Harris & Collins law firm, Mr. Ron Rindfleich from ALPA national, Bruce and Marty from ALPA legal, Capt JC Lawson, Comair's MEC (who spoke on behalf of Comair and ASA) and Mr. Phil Comstock of the Wilson Center for public research.

All concerns regarding the timing of our petition were discussed and the following is the general consensus of those that were involved. The final decision was left to the organizing committee members. Our decision was based upon an informal vote made at the conclusion of the meeting.

1. It was determined that we have more to loose than gain by delaying the petition. The interest cards will begin to expire after February 2nd. If we were to delay petitioning much beyond that date, we would likely have to start again from scratch with our campaign and card collecting efforts. Many pilots have donatedmoney and time and are counting on us to petition so a vote can occur. We have a moral obligation to these pilots to see to it that their efforts were not made in vain. A delay in petitioning will result in an immediate compromise of our credibility and resolve in advancing and protecting the collective interests of our pilot group.

2. Our company's senior management has masterminded the tactic of stymieing union drives by selling hope to our pilots. They have a track record of making promises to this pilot group that never materialize. They will never take us seriously unless we take action and equip ourselves with the necessary resources to hold them accountable, protect our <a href="http://get-certified.net?go=employment" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: employment';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">employment</a> with an enforceable contract and legally-recognized representation. Only then can we effectively negotiate a contract from a position of strength, unity, knowledge and true accountability.

3. There are rumors that senior management began talks with SAPA to 'sweeten the deal' on our 18 month TA, only to halt those talks later, ostensibly due to UPA organizing activities. SAPA representatives apparently raised the issue that any attempt by the company to alter our working conditions or compensation after being reasonably notified of this union drive might result in some legal fallout against the company. SAPA representatives did so while claiming that this was merely a personal opinion, and not meant to imply an official, SAPA position. The company is now apparently using this as an excuse to halt all talks with SAPA regarding the proposed inclusion of the pilot group in a new bonus plan, as well as increased pay rates for the CRJ-70. We feel that this is likely another attempt by the company to dissuade pilots from supporting UPA by attempting to convince everyone that doing so could result in the loss of extra pay or exclusion from a bonus plan. As it now stands, this pilot group has absolutely no guarantees that any of this will occur if UPA decided against petitioning the NMB. In addition, if senior management is sincere in their desire to be fair to our pilots and include us in the 2003 earnings spoils, it is certainly free and welcome to act to this end at any time. UPA will never protest any action by the company that benefits our pilots. It would benefit the company to proceed with these compensation talks and do something now (even if it were to mean tossing the pilot group a bone) and conduct business as usual rather than continue the unfortunate practice of making empty promises.

4. As an illustration, if the company were to give each of us $10.00 per hour pay raise, they would be free to take it away in the future without our consent since we do not have a legally binding and enforceable work contract. Recently, each of us have been asked to sign and return the blue employee handbook receipt forms. These forms do nothing more than reiterate the fact that the company reserves the right to change anything they wish regarding our benefits, compensation and work rules. Our current arrangement does not require prior consultation with the pilot group. The company's only obligation is simply to notify us of any changes they see fit to make. There is no mention of SAPA being notified of any potential changes or attempting to obtain input from any employee committees. When SAPA or any other employee committee is consulted, it occurs purely at the discretion of our management. The blue employee handbook form also reaffirms our status as at-will employees, implying that any of us may have our jobs terminated for any cause at any time. We need to protect our existing agreement now by certifying UPA.

5. The pilots at United, Comair, ASA, SouthWest, American and ACA, have officially stated their support for the certification
efforts of our pilots at SkyWest. I must emphasize that none of them seeks to have a chapter or their respective labor organization created at SkyWest. Rather, each stressed the importance of all airline pilots speaking with a unified voice, regardless of which certified pilot's association may represent them, on issues that affect us all. Pilots from both ASA and Comair have offered to talk with any SkyWest pilot that may have questions or reservations about joining a union. In addition, we will soon consult with DALPA. Currently, DALPA is busy with pay concession issues, but they too have expressed a desire to see our pilots organized and represented by a collective bargaining agreement.

6. Pilots that are relatively new to our company and the airline industry may not feel impressed to support the UPA organizing
effort. Many among this group may be simply grateful and relieved to have finally arrived at an airline job. All of us remember and share this sentiment. It is truly great to be here at SkyWest, our airline of choice. Some of our newer pilots may feel that pursuing certification may be akin to rocking the boat, or biting the proverbial hand that feeds them. This approach is
understandable, and seemingly wise on the face of it. Each of us may be more concerned with where the next meal, <a href="http://get-data.net?go=mortgage" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: mortgage';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">mortgage</a> or student <a href="http://get-faster.com?go=loan" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: loan';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">loan</a> payment will come from, rather than focusing on the seemingly nebulous, 'what-if' issues of job security and work rules. As tenure with the company increases, however, these longer-term issues tend to gain importance and loom larger on the horizon. Many, if not all of us, hold or at one time held the desire to move on from SkyWest in favor of one of the major airlines. This is a commendable aspiration. What is it though about the majors, besides the allure of higher pay and operating larger equipment, that makes the prospect of working there so desirable? A higher level of professionalism? Perhaps. A greater sense of occupational maturity? Possibly. A more secure and rational set of job benefits? Maybe. Consider whether any of these attributes could have anything to do with the willingness of their respective pilot groups to recognize and speak out on mutually important issues? Or maybe the utility perceived by their pilot groups of having a true and unabridged say in corporate decisions that bear on their material well-being? Or perhaps the understanding that you cannot always rely on others who do not share some of your specific concerns or financial circumstances to provide benevolently for your best interest? Consider these ideas, and others, as you decide whether you feel it appropriate to support UPA's certification drive.

We are on the road to success. We ask every SkyWest pilot to support this effort. We have unconditional support from a plethora of pilot groups and unions who have no stake or vested interest in our affairs. UPA is not a destructive organization. We see no enemies among any of the labor groups at our company. We are grateful for our jobs and thankful for the good fortune of being able to pursue an occupation that we love. We work hard at doing our jobs well and are willing to make sacrifices for the benefit of our airline. We believe that every other pilot at this company shares this perspective. Our goal is to protect and preserve all that we and our predecessors have worked so hard to obtain. Our desire to secure a reasonable, economically sound contract and have some career and certificate protection is not an aspiration that is in any way harmful to this company or to our fellow SkyWest employees. It is regrettable that some members our company may attempt to convince you otherwise. Keep the faith and spread the word.
 
Our company's senior management has masterminded the tactic of stymieing union drives by selling hope to our pilots. They have a track record of making promises to this pilot group that never materialize

Who knew this was going to happen? (sarcasm) You can insert "I told you so" anywhere you want.
 
Don't be overly concerned. This is typical UPA rhetoric which conveniently ignores the fact that more than half the SkyWest pilots polled think UPA should wait until SkyWest's current T.A. expires at the end of 2004 before locking in their current workrules for God only knows how long. By petitioning now with far less than half the pilots, even fence-sitters, fully behind their drive, the UPA folks are setting themselves up for failure. By petitioning now, UPA is going to alienate many SkyWest pilots who are on the fence.

It also continues their tradition of not answering very pertinent questions, one of which is how they intend to fund their fledgling organization with only 1 percent dues of 1400 pilots and NO initial assessment.

It's also interesting to note the major difference in attitude toward UPA between RJ pilots and EMB pilots. The overwhelming support for UPA seems to come from senior RJ guys in SLC, while the majority of EMB guys (especially west coast domiciles) are opposed or on the fence.

Should be an interesting vote from a heavily divided pilot group.
 
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I'm curious why Rogue5 finds it necessary to post internal SkyWest information on FlightInfo?
 
One of UPA's challenges has been communication with a pilot group scattered across so many domiciles. I think they are just trying to reach out in every way they can. A lot of our pilots still have no idea what UPA is.

Scott
 
reno said:
I'm curious why Rogue5 finds it necessary to post internal SkyWest information on FlightInfo?

This is NOT internal to SkyWest, but a public mailer from the UPA intended to be spread. Note the last line:

"Keep the faith and spread the word."
 
Rogue5 said:
This is NOT internal to SkyWest, but a public mailer from the UPA intended to be spread. Note the last line:

"Keep the faith and spread the word."

Public mailer?

I think we need to keep our internal business to ourselves.

Funny if it was a public mailer I wonder why I never got one.
 
Dave,

I got it from the upa organizers this a.m. and as far as anyone I know can tell, there was no mention of keeping it from public knowledge. what's your baggage with having it out? I'm just too lazy to cut and paste the whole thing. let's all take a few deep breaths on this one. plus, there are probably alot of cali/iah crews that don't know anything about this movement, so the more it gets out, the more informed the crew populace becomes.

Mookie

btw...how's the snipe coming along? great wx lately for a little gorge sailing dontchatink?:cool:
 
Morgoth said:
Don't be overly concerned. This is typical UPA rhetoric which conveniently ignores the fact that more than half the SkyWest pilots polled think UPA should wait until SkyWest's current T.A. expires at the end of 2004 before locking in their current workrules for God only knows how long. By petitioning now with far less than half the pilots, even fence-sitters, fully behind their drive, the UPA folks are setting themselves up for failure. By petitioning now, UPA is going to alienate many SkyWest pilots who are on the fence.

It also continues their tradition of not answering very pertinent questions, one of which is how they intend to fund their fledgling organization with only 1 percent dues of 1400 pilots and NO initial assessment.

It's also interesting to note the major difference in attitude toward UPA between RJ pilots and EMB pilots. The overwhelming support for UPA seems to come from senior RJ guys in SLC, while the majority of EMB guys (especially west coast domiciles) are opposed or on the fence.

Should be an interesting vote from a heavily divided pilot group.


Should you guys get screwed again by management with the "voting" of a new pay agreement....then when will be the appropriate time to petition the NMB??

IT'S NOW OR NEVER !!

in my 6 years at skywest, I've lost count on the number of time things were just changed by management and shoved down our throat overnight without any warning or consultation with SAPA. All we could do was "take it".

wish UPA the best, TAKE THEM DOWN !!!
 
"TAKE THEM DOWN!"

Isn't that strangely reminiscent of the UAL mechanics who wore T-shirts that said "HIGHEST PAY TILL THE LAST DAY!" This "take them down" attitude, while no doubt manly and testosterone-driven, does nothing but reinforce the notion that you're more interested in grinding an axe and/or inflicting pain on management than doing what's best for the pilot group, let alone other employee groups at SkyWest. Indeed, it seems to advocate a willingness to be a willing participant in your own airline's demise if you don't get your way.

Don't you agree that it fosters if not advocates an adversarial position? While there are definitely airlines out there where management and labor have an acrimonious relationship, I don't think SkyWest is like that. I also disagree that SkyWest pilots are always having things "shoved down their throats." There is an amicable and professional relationship which has been nurtured over 30+ years. Do SkyWest pilots get everything they want? Of course not. Neither would they with UPA, ALPA, or any other union. The company must satisfy both its shareholders and its employees. In this day and age of cut-throat competition, low-fare economics, it is increasingly difficult to accomplish (IMHO).

On a different subject, as a SkyWest pilot, a few questions for you:

(1) are you content with UPA's nebulous financial estimates of dues/expense ratios -- i.e., do you think their budget can be accomplished on 1 percent dues without an initial assessment,

(2) how comfortable are you with their lack of experience running a union, their negotiating skills, etc.,

(3) do you think that UPA will prevent the company from creatively interpreting any contract any more than they do your current policy manual?

(4) Are you really willing to lock in your current pay agreement for however many years it takes to negotiate a contract that may or may not be as good as the arrangement you have now?

Inquiring minds and all that.......

P.S. The above is NOT intended to be flame bait in any way, or a personal attack -- I'm seriously interested in your perspective.
 
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Auto Throttle's attitude is exactly why I don't support a union here. No union was one of the first things I was attracted to coming to SkyWest, and still feel that way. From the guys I've flown with, it still seems as if it's just a small group again trying to start it up.
 
If you dont like unions, I guess your going to spend the rest of your life at skywest. You wouldnt want to fight for anything, that would require some effort and you might make someone angry with your pilot group. Your management will fight, they will always fight.

Dont forget to pick up you handbook, I would hate to hear that one of you guys got fired for not following the rules set by your mgmt.

Dont listen to any of your senior crj captains, they may want a union. What would they know? Some have only been around 6+ years. Take your advice from a 6 month 120 FO who loves the company, and they love him for being that way.
 
Some of the people who went to SkyWest actually DO plan on staying there for the rest of their careers, due to domicile location, QOL, or whatever other personal reason they may have.

Also, the implication that a nonunion pilot force will just roll over and die is ludicrous. Management may be that way at other carriers, but SkyWest management has a 30+ year history of looking after its employees -- and that includes the pilots. Yes, I know that's a rarity in this industry -- which might explain the mindset of "us vs. them" that rages throughout our profession. But it seems to be different at SkyWest.

Interestingly enough, the SkyWest pilots that I've talked to regarding UPA have widely varying opinions. You suggest that we should talk to senior RJ pilots because they've been here and know what they're talking about. Perhaps. But the majority of west coast RJ captains that I've spoken to (all with at least 10 years of seniority, I might add) are adamantly opposed to UPA -- not because they're anti-union, but because UPA has failed to demonstrate financial common sense (e.g. their budget to dues ratio is fiscally impossible), they have no experience running a union, and most importantly because they refuse to answer many pertinent questions (which, BTW, they also accuse the current representative group of doing), and are already talking about a transition plan after they're voted in (according to one post I've been told about) -- which is rather arrogant and presuming, especially since they haven't even petitioned the NMB yet.

So it's not just junior, inexperienced, naive EMB F/O's who oppose UPA. There are quite a few of the senior RJ guys that you hold in such high esteem who oppose it too. Their sage advice should be heeded too. In the latest polls, less than half the pilots polled even support petitioning the NMB at this time, let alone having a certification vote. If I were a UPA organizer, I'd be very nervous with only that amount of support.
 

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