SkyWest Pilots Promoting ALPA

[thebest]

Tool Box.............................


AF


P.S. and I happen to like my ALPA pen.

I hit the spot! Love ya THEBEST ...In case you didn't hear it the first time

 

[ArcticFlier]

No spot to hit. Just stating facts.............


AF

 

[amcnd]

Most pilots that have come to SkyWest the past 2 years have been from other ALPA carriers and have a bad taste in there mouth for ALPA. Me "included" allot of MESA/MESABA/COMAIR even ASA ect... And the resent track record of ALPA at ASA/COMAIR/MESABA/EAGLE..ect... I don't think it's going to happen for a while.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have zero trust in ALPA

You don't trust yourself?

 

[Peter Griffin]

Most pilots that have come to SkyWest the past 2 years have been from other ALPA carriers and have a bad taste in there mouth for ALPA. Me "included" allot of MESA/MESABA/COMAIR even ASA ect... And the resent track record of ALPA at ASA/COMAIR/MESABA/EAGLE..ect... I don't think it's going to happen for a while.

I agree with most of that. I would be one of those former ALPA carrier guys. Things at SKYW are definately better than my last carrier. The only thing I got from ALPA was endless negiotiations and 2% of my pay taken from me. ALPA left a very bitter taste in my mouth. However, I think a union will be on property here, and I think it will be ALPA, and I think it will be soon.

As I have said before, Im not opposed to a union. Just ALPA. Too many conflicts of interest with major carriers.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The dialogue that comes from the OC does not take that tone, however. It is more of a 'we'll show them (management)' or 'wait'll we get ALPA, then we'll demand it and get it.' This adversarial relationship is something I want nothing to do with.

I'd be interested in seeing examples of official correspondence from the OC with the tone you describe.

 

[SkyNation]

Dave,

it's all over the internal boards, especially from AB, OG and others. I really think it's as simple as some people being glass half full, others being glass half empty types. I'm an optimist, for me we have it better here than others at ALPA carriers. sounds like lots of my former ALPA brothers agree. I respect your opinion, as well as those of the OC. I don't think they are gaining the ground they need, however.

USC,
I agree. I don't know what it's like at ASA, but I've spoken with a few of your FOs that make over 10K LESS than me, and they fly the 70 and are on 3rd and 4th year pay. I'm on 2nd. at the end of the day, it's pay and QOL, and I feel we do better in both, no matter what the formula, scale, rig or whatever that provides it.

 

[USCtrojan]

Skywest

Dave,

it's all over the internal boards, especially from AB, OG and others. I really think it's as simple as some people being glass half full, others being glass half empty types. I'm an optimist, for me we have it better here than others at ALPA carriers. sounds like lots of my former ALPA brothers agree. I respect your opinion, as well as those of the OC. I don't think they are gaining the ground they need, however.

USC,
I agree. I don't know what it's like at ASA, but I've spoken with a few of your FOs that make over 10K LESS than me, and they fly the 70 and are on 3rd and 4th year pay. I'm on 2nd. at the end of the day, it's pay and QOL, and I feel we do better in both, no matter what the formula, scale, rig or whatever that provides it.

And the 90? Or better yet, whatever the future holds?
Trojan

 

[sweptback]

I agree. I don't know what it's like at ASA, but I've spoken with a few of your FOs that make over 10K LESS than me, and they fly the 70 and are on 3rd and 4th year pay. I'm on 2nd. at the end of the day, it's pay and QOL, and I feel we do better in both, no matter what the formula, scale, rig or whatever that provides it.

I'm going to call BS on this one. No ASA 700 pilot makes $10k less than you do, unless maybe he drops down to 30 hours a month.

Also, QOL for ATL 200 is hard to beat. Over half of the lines for the last few months have been 16+ days off, 3 on 4 off. The 700 is worse on the QOL side because of the smaller fleet and two domiciles. It's not terrible, just worse than the 200.

I'm no ASA cheerleader, but I would rather have our hard line system than your PBS system. Unfortunately I think one of the first LOAs of our new contract will be for PBS. I just hope we get something good in return.

 

[SkyNation]

sweptback,

If QOL is good at ASA, I say 'right on!' I'm glad, and I'd hope it would continue for all of us.

no BS on the pay. 2 of ya'll's FOs in our JS told me that, one 4th year one 3rd year pay. the both said that we have it better at SkyWest in most ways. that info plus Smacktards poll of gross pay is very telling.

http://asacrew.com/store/results.php

I haven't inlcluded mine in the poll, and it looks like some people are only reporting one check instead of the whole month.

For my check of 7/7, which shows pay through 6/30/06, I'm at a little over 29K gross. I have picked up 1 or 2 locals each month, and am averaging over 100 hours of CREDIT each month. So, if I keep that up, I'll make in the high 50K range for 2006, most of it on 2nd year pay. Add to that the performace rewards I'll get and I might make 60K.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave,

it's all over the internal boards, especially from AB, OG and others. I really think it's as simple as some people being glass half full, others being glass half empty types. I'm an optimist, for me we have it better here than others at ALPA carriers. sounds like lots of my former ALPA brothers agree. I respect your opinion, as well as those of the OC. I don't think they are gaining the ground they need, however.

SkyNation,

When you made your post it made it sound like the official correspondence from the OC was antagonistic. Here's what you said:

The dialogue that comes from the OC does not take that tone, however. It is more of a 'we'll show them (management)' or 'wait'll we get ALPA, then we'll demand it and get it.' This adversarial relationship is something I want nothing to do with.

Wouldn't your post be more accurate if it stated that various pro-ALPA people have made questionable posts on some informal forums rather than saying it's coming from the OC itself? Are those posts really representative of the OC and their goals?

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Dave,

it's all over the internal boards, especially from AB, OG and others..

Do a little more research before you post....OG is not on the organizing committee, if you dont even know who is on the OC how much do you really understand the drive?

I can bet its safe to say you have been at SkyWest less than 5 years, ask yourself why support for the drive is highest amongst those that have been here 5 years or longer (this is not a slam on those with 5 years or less).

Yes things are much better at SkyWest...and even if I could keep my seniority I wouldnt want to go to any of the other regionals, but they SHOULD be better. We are very succesfull..are in great financial shape and we are doing more for the comany now than we did 5 years ago....yet my compensation is worth less now than it was than.

Management has made it clear they already think we are overpaid...they would pay us less if they could (the only reason is they dont is the mutiny it would cause) they have proved that by not paying new hires when they could get away with it.

We have a smart management team with excellent business skills....that have to answer to the stock holders..not the employees, they are hiring lawyers to protect their interests (yet when it comes to us...they say we dont need any third parties!!).

 

[MYFpilot]

For my check of 7/7, which shows pay through 6/30/06, I'm at a little over 29K gross. I have picked up 1 or 2 locals each month, and am averaging over 100 hours of CREDIT each month. So, if I keep that up, I'll make in the high 50K range for 2006, most of it on 2nd year pay.

How many days are you averaging OFF each month?

Add to that the performace rewards I'll get and I might make 60K.

Should say, "I might get". Especially with de-peaking. ...And $10,000 in performance rewards for a second year FO? Not possible, as the MBIP portion doesn't kick in until after your second full year. Without the MBIP it's only about $175 - $250 per quarter

 

[SkyNation]

Dave,

yes, that is more accurate. having flown with members of the OC, and reading their posts along with other pro-ALPA folks, my impression is what it is. take it for what it's worth, but I tend to fly/talk with more who agree with me than disagree.

s.o.JTB,

I know he isn't on the OC. His attitude, and others, exemplifies to me what I would like to see kept at a minimum. I know that every company has naysayers and complainers. I'm just trying to be realistic. Of course I'd take more pay on the 70, 90, or whatever else is coming. who wouldn't? I don't see any compelling evidence that ALPA would make things any better, but I see lots of evidence in looking at other ALPA regionals that it could certainly be worse.

I came to SkyWest from an ALPA carrier. So did lots of guys. you can assert that we're 'too new here' to realize how bad we have it. I've heard that arugment. What rings more true is when I talk to 22, 20, 18 year guys who recognize that while things are perfect, they are happy to have been here and realize that we still do well in comparison.

am I entitled to that opinion? I respect you're entitled to yours.

have either of you ever worked for an ALPA carrier? why did you leave and come to SkyWest? why are some members of the OC interviewing at JetBlue (not ALPA)?

 

[SkyNation]

How many days are you averaging OFF each month?

Should say, "I might get". Especially with de-peaking. ...And $10,000 in performance rewards for a second year FO? Not possible, as the MBIP portion doesn't kick in until after your second full year. Without the MBIP it's only about $175 - $250 per quarter

12 days off is all, but I typically try to pick up two locals for at least 6 hours of credit each. so it would be more like 14 or 15. my choice.

when did I say 10K in performace rewards? I said 29K gross for the first 6 months. multiply that by 2 = 58K for the year if I keep working the same. I'll get PRs for the last quarter. If it's only 5%, that'll add another $725. If we get another PR check for the performace items of about $200 again, that's $925 in PRs for the last quarter. add that to 58K and I'm knocking on 60K for the year. again, by choice I work more, which increases my user bank, increases my PR, etc. I know other 2nd year FOs who only make in the low 40s because they bid strictly for time off. I'm just glad to have the option.

why would I lie or make this up?

from my 7/7 check stub:

YTD 29145.61 24242.61 1911.35 4586.73 22647.53

 

[Bako Cap]

Saddly, SkyWest ALPA will pass or fail depending on the completion of ASAs contract negotiations. If the company made $112M in 2005 and 13.1% ASA margin in the first quarter of 2006 and ASA takes ANY concessions, the SkyWest ALPA drive will fail. If ASAs pay/QOL stays relatively the same, it's even odds. If ASAs pay/QOL increase at least 1.9%, it's better than even to pass (but still by a slim margin). I think this sucks to put any more pressure on the ASA pilot group (lord knows they packed a bunch for several years), but it is what it is.

 

[thebest]

No spot to hit. Just stating facts.............


AF

Uhh, ya! Me too............THEBEST

 

[thebest]

Lets face it. ALPA gets on anyone's property...mesa... and you instantly take a pay cut! They cannot help you guys/gals out...they could not help out the big airlines, why would they ever give a toot about a regional! Just because ALPA is with you doesn't mean life is good and/or gonna get better...mesa...go fractional!

Everyone says Mesa is lowering the standards...well thank ALPA!

Heck, if you want more money GO work for alpa. I hear their office folk do damn good!



THEBEST

 

[USCtrojan]

Mesa

Lets face it. ALPA gets on anyone's property...mesa... and you instantly take a pay cut! They cannot help you guys/gals out...they could not help out the big airlines, why would they ever give a toot about a regional! Just because ALPA is with you doesn't mean life is good and/or gonna get better...mesa...go fractional!

Everyone says Mesa is lowering the standards...well thank ALPA!

Heck, if you want more money GO work for alpa. I hear their office folk do dang good!



THEBEST

Where would Mesa be WITHOUT ALPA? Questions that make you go hmmmmm.....

Trojan

 

[thebest]

Where would Mesa be WITHOUT ALPA? Questions that make you go hmmmmm.....

Trojan

Lets look at reality....they do have ALPA...HMMMMMM! THEBEST

 

[DenverCrashpad]

SteveAir,
Hey no problem.....as long as you STOP promoting 70, 90, and 150 seat flying for 50 rates. Believe it or not, that is what you are saying! Why are you soooooo scared of ALPA? You care to know why I do want a union.....because the company doesn't, and that is reason enough for me.

I don't believe he's saying that...

 

[USCtrojan]

Alpa

Lets look at reality....they do have ALPA...HMMMMMM! THEBEST

And the question is where would they be WITHOUT ALPA?

Trojan

 

[pipers]

i bet the the boys in SGU, BH namely, would do everything in their power to send our contract south if we vote alpa on property.....

you want deadhead pay?..........how bout' industry average
50 pay?..............................................industry average
emb120 pay......................................indusrty turbo prop average
premium pay?....................................indusrty average
etc.

ALPA representing regionals is like Wal-Mart representing the ma and pa store down the street

 

[Doberman]

BH and the boys are already getting your 2%, and then some, and then some, and then some. Some of you should answer USCtrojan's question.

Hey pipers? did you forget something?????

70 pay?
90 pay?
What ever the next CL-65-superliner pay?

If SAPA had one of the balls that SIA has, then maybe we could do without a union, but we all know the story there.

SkyWest is still number one in my book, but the future scares me!
Union or no union makes no difference at all, the only thing that will make a difference is a unified pilot group that makes good decisions and stands by them. I'm all ears on other ways to do that....

 

[CFIT]

The last ALPA contract that had any improvement was for express jet and now they have priced themselves out of work to the tune of 69 aircraft which is around a quarter of their fleet. Since then there has been only consessionary contracts signed and the one at ASA is looking to go the same way. Right now management has the harness on every airline with maybe the exception of Southwest. ASA is either going to give concessions or it will get a contract that leads to disolving the airline one hull at a time. JA is driving this ship and he knows every possible turn.

Plus ALPA has never protected any regional in the face of a major, and it's supposed to be one level of representation?

And Worth gets half a Miiiiiiiillllllllllliiiiiiiiioooooooonnnnn a year, while his old airline is on the skids? That is simply wrong.

Ya, let me throw a few more grand of my own money at that.
Hellno......

 

[s.o.sJTB]

The last ALPA contract that had any improvement was for express jet and now they have priced themselves out of work to the tune of 69 aircraft which is around a quarter of their fleet.]

Ask yourself why Xjet decided to KEEP THOSE 69 AC!!!! the airplanes are still there....because management knows they can still make money with another codeshare eventually! CAL put that flying up for bid NOT X JET!!

X-Jet is still holding on to the planes WITH THE IMROVEMENTS IN PILOT COMPENSATION!!!!!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If everything is so great at Skywest, how is it possible that we are the 20th most profitable airline in the WORLD including freight and all others, and yet can't even get a reasonable pay raise that's even close to the inflation rate for the last year[let alone the last 5 years we haven't been getting cost of living increases]???? Check the facts on page 37 of the July 2006 issue of Air Transport World!!!!! SkyWest #20 in operating profit Worldwide!!!! We're even above UPS in net profit for 2005.

 

[utahpilot]

I'll make in the low to mid 50K range this year at SkyWest, and only a little bit of it will be on 3rd year pay.

I was at AWAC. they're ALPA, and they lost their flying, domiciles, and had to start all over. I'm not saying ALPA caused that, but it certainly didn't prevent it.

ALPA is just an organized way to negotiate. management can still say no, drag their feet, and do things that suck and screw with your life. that is true anywhere.

 

[Rogue5]

ALPA is just an organized way to negotiate. management can still say no, drag their feet, and do things that suck and screw with your life. that is true anywhere.

True, but this brings up two points that relate to the advantages of having union representation:

1) When management DOES say no to improved work rules, pay, etc., an organized pilot group has the power to bring them back to the table and negotiate better terms via the threat of a work action.

2) When management DOES screw with your life by changing the rules in the middle of the game, an organized pilot group has the legal backing and financial resources to pursue a redress of policy (contract) violations.

At this point, SkyWest pilots have neither of these assets available to them, and the lack thereof has become all too obvious in recent years...

 

[Peter Griffin]

True, but this brings up two points that relate to the advantages of having union representation:

1) When management DOES say no to improved work rules, pay, etc., an organized pilot group has the power to bring them back to the table and negotiate better terms via the threat of a work action.

A union can bring them back to the table and TRY to negiotiate better terms...Obviously, with recent history at NW and DL, just because you threaten to strike doesnt mean youre not taking concessions.

2) When management DOES screw with your life by changing the rules in the middle of the game, an organized pilot group has the legal backing and financial resources to pursue a redress of policy (contract) violations.

Grieving something, you mean. SkyWest pilots do have this through SAPA, with a grievance board, etc. However, I will give you half a point on this one.

At this point, SkyWest pilots have neither of these assets available to them, and the lack thereof has become all too obvious in recent years...