Skywest Pay Vote in Effect

[rtmcfi]

Well, this recalled Xjet pilot is ready to "go to the mattress's" if needed. Just so you know not everyone hired at Xjet was a 600hr wonder kid. Some of us are going back with close to 6000hrs. I love your arrogance, go back and drink some more kool aid

It is go to the mat.....as in wrestling. Not mattress. Way to many ways to interpret that.

 

[imisscorplife]

Sorry, Im still fairly new to the 121 world and all of the union talk. How can someone say that a regional ALPA carrier is better than a regional without one. Mesa has been ALPA for years, everyone says it sucks! Other airlines are ALPA, and plenty of people say they hate it there too. Skywest didnt always own ASA, Skywest has always been an airline sought after for employment by many pilots, including me. So how are Skywest pilots riding the coat tails? Because it now owns 2 union carriers its all of sudden a bad thing to be employed here at Skywest? I hope the best for everyone and hope that XJT/ASA get a great package deal, not because I hope to ride "your coat tail", but because pilots deserve it. We are our worst enemy! Good luck to everyone damn!

 

[tzwarrior]

Personally I think there is a lot of misconception about a Union. One thing is for certain, you are worth what you can negotiate, and without a union you simply do not have the same leverage. Who cares what flavor of union. Your union is only as good as your pilots who run it. If you've got a good group of pilots running it, an in-house union may be the best option. I'm personally not a huge fan of unions, but this career path practically mandates it. If you could move laterally or up in position from one airline to another without losing pay, I don't believe a union would be nearly as necessary. If Company A doesn't treat you well, then you will leave for Company B who treats you better and pays you better. Companies would be forced to police their own pay and benefits which would create competition between companies for better benefits. Because our system so heavily rewards on seniority, that system will never happen.

If you don't have a good group to run your union, then all bets are off. I hear people say ALPA this, or Teamsters that, but the truth is you need a good group of people in your pilot group to run it, and a pilot group that will stand behind them. (the national level of a union only provides you with the tools, but you have to know how to build a house before a hammer and materials will help you) My personal opinion is SkyWest pilots would be better off trying to bring all the pilots under one list. Right now they can play each group against one another with little pilot carrots. We need to educate the entry level 121 pilot with a sense of net worth. Punching buttons at 35000' is not a hard job, and neither is it a difficult job for an insurance company collecting your premium. You're paid because companies need people who can still have a cognitive thought when the $hit hits the fan. (like my wife who ran over our dog and started screaming "what do I do". How about stop moving forward so the rear tire doesn't finish the job, that would be good) People who are responsible, willing to act in the capacity of a manager. Professional people who meet the above qualification and are willing to do that all away from their family for days and for some weeks missing kids birthdays, soccer games, special events, babies first words, etc.. on all days including holidays, weekends etc. And lets not forget that all the years spent trying to survive on ridiculous wages living in a big city while making payments on the huge debt accumulated by many for college and flight school, or the extra days away from family while you do the commute. So 10-15 years later or more after potentially several furloughs you finally get that great gig making some real money, and suddenly you're diagnosed with a medical yanking illness that pulls the career out from under you like a pro athlete without the pay.

You're worth much more.

[/rant off]

just my personal feeling, your mileage may vary. And if your religious affiliation frowns on gambling, you'd better switch careers now. This is the highest/lowest paying career path in the world. Don't upgrade that house/car, you don't know if you bet on the right color until you voluntarily retire.

 

[WayBack]

Right, because you have so much power as a non-union airline pilot group. You can yell all you want, but at the end of the day, the ball is in their court.

You're right! Or you could vote in ALPA, lose 2% of your pay and still get pushed around all day long, because ALPA is spineless!

 

[tzwarrior]

You're right! Or you could vote in ALPA, lose 2% of your pay and still get pushed around all day long, because ALPA is spineless!

Spineless? You are what makes a union either work or not. It has nothing to do with the brand name of the union. If you're so worried about the brand of union, start your own in-house union, that way you can place the blame right where it really is. Your pilot group either makes a union strong or weak. ALPA doesn't vote for you, they just give you some tools to work from and (maybe) fight for you on the national level.

 

[nerjdriver]

Hope ASA/XJT knock it out of the park?! Hilarious! I bet those 600 hour wonder f/o's at XJT that just got off furlough will have plenty of guts to swing for the warning track. I bet the memory of their job at Chili's has all but faded away.

I love these threads... The biggest idiots think they have the greatest strategies for pay scale haggling. I'm not ALPA anymore and extremely happy about it! Riding other's coat tails? Not in the slightest.

We all want bigger paychecks and better work rules, but arguing that a union is the way to do it is like claiming that share cropping is the future of farming or sub prime lending is the future of the housing market. Unions added weight to a downward trending industry. Saying ALPA is the way back to former high standards is a ridiculous argument. The naysayers who claim that negotiating "holds no water without a union" have had a harder career path than most non-union airline employees; and they did it while hitched to the union wagon. Yet they refuse (or can't) put the two together.

Either way, VOTE NO SkyWesters!! We deserve better.

NObody is saying ALPA is the answer tough guy. That being said your high school prom planning committee presented something to you hoping youd take it. End of story.

By the way, ASA/XJT will be getting a better QOL and PAY package than you have. Get used to taking the back seat big guy. The times....they are a changing!

 

[tzwarrior]

...but arguing that a union is the way to do it is like claiming that share cropping is the future of farming or sub prime lending is the future of the housing market. Unions added weight to a downward trending industry...

You need to study union history a bit more. Unions are one of the most studied elements of labor economics. Since 1970 unionized workers have averaged 21%-32% higher wages than their non-unionized counterparts.

Here's a starter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_wage_premium

It is riding on coat tails. Can you point me to one airline shop that is responsible for overall wages going up that is non-union. Non-union shops give meaningful raises when the disparity between them and other similar jobs starts to impact their operation. If pilots aren't leaving, the pay isn't going to move by any meaningful amount. [enters the 1% raise]

Again, it doesn't have to be ALPA, but you need to be organized. The guys on the bottom need to figure out another way to make money... sure it's easier said than done, but for long term career outlook, you'll be way better off. It's the only way. Management will do everything they can to manage expectations, including throwing out the F word. I'm at the bottom now where I work and getting furloughed is a real possibility. I will vote NO on anything that attempts to deteriorate our CBA even if it means I'll have to wait for a recall. You can be efficient and pay good money, but I'm not willing to subsidize management who would rather take the easy way out and let me pay for the inefficiencies in the company.

 

[WayBack]

Sorry, but ASA always will set the limit for Skywest pilots. That is, until you are properly represented. You better pray that ASA/XJT knock it out of the park if you really want a raise. Otherwise, 1% is about all you'll get.

Holy cow, that is the funniest thing I have EVER read. Standard, really? ALPA has lowered the bar and ruined the industry.

You need to study union history a bit more. Unions are one of the most studied elements of labor economics. Since 1970 unionized workers have averaged 21%-32% higher wages than their non-unionized counterparts.

That was back in 1970, now look who makes more as a pilot...all NON ALPA pilots! SWA pilots make more than legacy wide body pilots.

 

[tzwarrior]

That was back in 1970, now look who makes more as a pilot...all NON ALPA pilots! SWA pilots make more than legacy wide body pilots.

No, that is data since 1970 up until today. A history of better earnings which means more than just pulling data for 1 year. But you already knew that.

I'm not advocating ALPA. I'm advocating a union. Again, it's not ALPA that gets you a raise, it's the solidarity of your group. An in-house union is a fine option. The company I work for is in-house. I've worked for a non-union shop, ALPA, teamsters and an in-house union shop (like SWA). Your union is only as good as its members.


...so, Who makes more money.... Unionized pilots or non-unionized pilots. That's an easy one. Stay on target. Unionized pilots (which includes ALPA, but is not exclusive) make more than non-unionized pilots. That's the key point here.

 

[vtech]

So, the last contract ASA negotiated which ALMOST brought payrates up to what Skywest pilots negotiated ten months earlier was cutting edge? Who was riding whose coat tails. Look it up. What are Skywest's rates? What are ASA's rates? Sky'west rates are a few pennies more. A few pennies more + 2% not counting the ALPA "tool" fee. ALPA HAS THE "TOOLS.". ASA used those tools to get the last contract up to speed with Skywest. In 2000, Skywest matched Comair's rates dollar for dollar. Where would you rather be working today, Comair or Skywest?

It's the same BS over and over and over again. Skywest is a great place to work. Tomorrow night at 8 p.m. new pay rates will be approved by a vote of the pilot group and the ASA pilot group will have a chance to negotiate a new contract year after next and good luck to them. I wish them the best. But stop with the "you've gotta have ALPA to get good pay scales and work rules" BS. It's just not true. If it was, Skywest wouldn't exist the way it does.

We're all pilots. We love what we do once the brake is released. Get over the misdirected bitterness toward other pilots who do the same thing you do every day. Relax. Enjoy life for a day. Then try it for two days.