Skywest new pay proposal! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[John Pennekamp]

Skywest current scale was approved by the pilots in late 2006. It had an expiration date of 2010. The scale has already been renegotiated and voting to approve or reject the new scale will start on January 20th and end on January 30th. The possiblity to renogitiate in 6 months exists at Skywest.

What do you think the chances of ASA's contract being renegotiated prior to the amendable date are?

Well that kind of makes our case, doesn't it? Your pay scale with an "expiration of 2010" has already been "renegotiated" several times. That means it isn't worth the paper its written on because the company can "negotaiate" with SAPA then impose whatever they want any time. The only reason it was a raise the last few times was that other regionals secured raised for themselves and SkyWest matched. When the tidal wave everyone is predicting finally hits the regionals, and the other airlines start failing or taking concessions, you will be one of the first and hardest to fall.

Why? Unlike the rest of us, your management DOES NOT need your permission to change your "policy manual" which contains all of your work rules and your pay!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well Shobra, I would answer your jumping-to-conclusions question with a very good answer. But since I am on the ignore list and you won't be able to see anything I say, unless someone else quotes my words for their own post, you will never get the answer for which you desire. So I emplore you to go ahead and think that I said something really assanine that will allow you to spew 'lareger amounts of feces' out of your mouth and transform them into henpecks on the keyboard. Try not to spit beer all over your screen and you may just want to use about half the gel in your hair that you have been lately. Also, that iPod just makes you look like you are trying to impress the 14 year olds running around the airport. Grow up.

I got your back XPOO. I'll go ahead and quote it for you.

 

[XPOO]

You rock!

 

[Flyerdan]

Well that kind of makes our case, doesn't it? Your pay scale with an "expiration of 2010" has already been "renegotiated" several times. That means it isn't worth the paper its written on because the company can "negotiate" with SAPA then impose whatever they want any time. The only reason it was a raise the last few times was that other regionals secured raised for themselves and SkyWest matched. When the tidal wave everyone is predicting finally hits the regionals, and the other airlines start failing or taking concessions, you will be one of the first and hardest to fall.

Why? Unlike the rest of us, your management DOES NOT need your permission to change your "policy manual" which contains all of your work rules and your pay!

OK, I agree with this to a point. I do feel though that the real driving forces are supply & demand (market), and the overall strength of the economy, as opposed to a union membership. It seems to me that historically the unions have helped negotiate pay cuts and furloughs just as often as they have negotiated pay raises. I'm not against unions here, just pointing out that economic forces, markets, & bankruptcies seem to be the major influences.

 

[BoilerUP]

OK, I agree with this to a point. I do feel though that the real driving forces are supply & demand (market), and the overall strength of the economy, as opposed to a union membership. It seems to me that historically the unions have helped negotiate pay cuts and furloughs just as often as they have negotiated pay raises. I'm not against unions here, just pointing out that economic forces, markets, & bankruptcies seem to be the major influences.

Have you read Hard Landing and Flying the Line, Volume 2?

It might help you better understand how "market forces" and bankruptcies affect collective bargaining in this industry.

A fringe benefit will be an education in pattern bargaining...

 

[Gandalf]

VTech and Joe,

Wow, such hate.

Yes, everyone with this proposal I will receive 2.68% more this year. However, this rate goes down next year.

And this year when I fly the 70/90 with a first year FO - he/she sitting next to me will NOT be receiving the override that I am getting.

Next year, I will get an additional COLA raise, while the 1st year FO sitting next to me will still NOT get the override and also will NOT be recieving the COLA that I am.

My opinion of this proposal is that is unfair for me to pad my wallet from the pockets of my fellow pilot. Not even my fellow industry pilot, but my fellow co-worker.

That is what happened with the last proposal. The guys/girls that helped build this company(which, by the way I am proud and happy to be working for!) in the Bros, that work the hardest, in and out of LA, 8-9 legs, 20 min. legs, w/ 18 min. turns, shooting approaches a good percentage of those legs, all for the great pay of 4 hours for a 15 hour duty day, were left out. Left in the dust. My opinion is that is not right.

My opinion is that any pay proposal that comes before us, not exploit one group of our co-workers in order to gain more money for another.

My opinion is that any proposal needs to benefit all, add to what we have, and furthers our current and future pay and QOL.

My opinion is that we all need to look closely at any proposal that is placed in front of us, no matter if it is a pay proposal at our workplace, or a house purchase document.

My opinion is that we ask the tough questions and demand the truth in any dealing that we have in our professional or personal life.

My opinion is that this is what a rational adult does.

That's my opinion. That's all I have done guys, shared my opinion. Like it or hate it.

We are still living in a free and democratic society, right....Or did I wake up in Communist China this morning?

You all have the choice to agree or disagree. You can read whatever post, written by whomever. You can skip over or not read whatever post, written by whomever. That is your choice.

As it is as much as it is your right to post your opinions here and elsewhere, it also is mine.

Have a great day.

 

[dooork]

Heard from a senior chief pilot, mgmt is "planning" on Messa going out of business this summer, and picking up their flying. Priceless! going from being the premier regional(oxymoron) to carrion eater, whats next?
PBR

Senior chief pilot??? how many do you have?..any way...MESA going out of business this summer...think not. MESA selling or doing away with the Air Midwest division (1900's) yep. Another one of the brain trusts on this board were talking about someone buying MESA....it is the Air Midwest part of the company that we have been slowly dismantling.

 

[John Pennekamp]

OK, I agree with this to a point. I do feel though that the real driving forces are supply & demand (market), and the overall strength of the economy, as opposed to a union membership. It seems to me that historically the unions have helped negotiate pay cuts and furloughs just as often as they have negotiated pay raises. I'm not against unions here, just pointing out that economic forces, markets, & bankruptcies seem to be the major influences.

Key word: negotiate.

There's a big difference between NEGOTIATING a concession with limits and guaranteed snapbacks and having one imposed with no input and no guarantees.

 

[Shobra]

This message is hidden because John Pennekamp is on your ignore list. congratz you are the second on the list.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This message is hidden because John Pennekamp is on your ignore list. congratz you are the second on the list.

Oooh, I'm SOOOOO hurt! NOT!

Better pace yourself, moron. There's only 6 spots on the ignore list.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Oooh, I'm SOOOOO hurt! NOT!

Better pace yourself, moron. There's only 6 spots on the ignore list.

Got yer back, Pennekamp...

 

[Nevets]

The Profit Sharing plan at Skywest, Performance Rewards I think it's called, was introduced three years ago. ASA is still trying to catch up to that one. Same holding company. ASA got about 75% of the Skywest program with their new contract. Maybe they'll catch up with their next contract. There are some that doubt the 75% number but they don't understand their own contract yet. Anyway, ASA almost caught up with Skyweest with their last contract on that program so does that count for Skywest "setting the bar?"

The proposed pay scale at Skywest essentially equals the pay scale at ASA. 1 % COLA in each scale. Payscales essentially the same. Would you expect Skywest Inc. to offer Skywest pilots a whole lot more than they just agreed to pay ASA pilots? If so, why? What sense would it make for Skywest Inc. to pay Skywest pilots a whole lot more than ASA pilots? Because Skywest pilots think they "deserve" it? What sense would it make for Skywest pilots to expect a whole lot more form Skywest Inc.?

Reject it! Send it back to SAPA to "negotiate" more. What do you expect the outcome to be? A whole lot more? Why?

Ok, then. Reject it because you "deserve" more. Once you get past that emotional reaction, take a deep breath and look around and see where you are. How'd that work out when the offer was rejected in November, 2005? A year later, a new scale was approved in 2006. The new scale went into effect in January, 2007. Skywest pilots ought to reject this one because they "deserve" more. Right. See where that gets you. If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. What's the history?

Why are you guys settling for this? Skywest is arguably thee most successful regional no matter how you look at it. Therefore, you should be getting no less than thee highest payrates (none of thies BHO crap), colas, perdiem, qol out there, period, end of story!

 

[Nevets]

Skywest current scale was approved by the pilots in late 2006. It had an expiration date of 2010. The scale has already been renegotiated and voting to approve or reject the new scale will start on January 20th and end on January 30th. The possiblity to renogitiate in 6 months exists at Skywest.

What do you think the chances of ASA's contract being renegotiated prior to the amendable date are?

Most contracts are renegotiated/amended before its section 6 amendable date by LOAs.

 

[Nevets]

Different rates for those planes. Not what you'd like but different rates exist.

Is it true that the 700/900 are slightly faster than the 200 and therefore most of the BHO is a wash?

 

[Nevets]

No Union equals 2% raise...

1.95% tax deductible

 

[viper548]

Is it true that the 700/900 are slightly faster than the 200 and therefore most of the BHO is a wash?

Yeah. The 700/900's are filed to fly at .77 or .80 and the -200's are almost always filed at .74

 

[XPOO]

Slow the throttle, save fuel, everyone wins.

 

[Erlanger]

Yeah. The 700/900's are filed to fly at .77 or .80 and the -200's are almost always filed at .74

Don't be fudging the numbers here. The 200 at Skywest is mostly flown at .77 but sometimes .74. The 700/900 is mostly flown at .77 too but sometimes at .80.

While you're flying 5 leg days in the 200, I'm flying 2 legs in the 700/900 and at a more efficient duty day.

Your multiple turns are costing you money and time.

 

[imacdog]

Ok, then. Reject it because you "deserve" more. Once you get past that emotional reaction, take a deep breath and look around and see where you are. How'd that work out when the offer was rejected in November, 2005? A year later, a new scale was approved in 2006. The new scale went into effect in January, 2007. Skywest pilots ought to reject this one because they "deserve" more. Right. See where that gets you. If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. What's the history?

Research "NetJets" and "2004 POS TA"

 

[viper548]

Don't be fudging the numbers here. The 200 at Skywest is mostly flown at .77 but sometimes .74. The 700/900 is mostly flown at .77 too but sometimes at .80.

While you're flying 5 leg days in the 200, I'm flying 2 legs in the 700/900 and at a more efficient duty day.

Your multiple turns are costing you money and time.

Just looked a bunch of releases off the flow board. -200's filed at .74, -700/-900's filed at .77

Of course not everyone flies what is filed. If we're talking about the leg going home then the -200 will be at .77 and the 700/900 at .82+

The point is the -700/900 flies faster, thus negating some of the BHO