SkyWest may seek merger with rival airline ExpressJet

[JoeMerchant]

While I agree that you guys arent scabs. All I would have to say is that you guys now are going to be flying what I would call unemployed work. My 2cents

That applies to many union pilots also..... ASA, CMR, Mesaba, EGL, etc. are all flying work that used to be done by other pilots...... This really isn't a "union" issue.....

The union pilots replace people just as fast as the non-union folks...... Some just pay Herndon for the ability to say it is "OK"....

 

[PCL_128]

....and from the same source......

(4): one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

How does that definition fit with you paying to sit in the right seat at Gulfstream?

Who is doing more harm to the profession?....

As you know, I already admit that that was wrong. When are the Skywest union haters going to admit that they're wrong? I'm waiting patiently. But to answer your question, Skywest being non-union is far more harmful to the profession than a handful of newbies down in South Florida paying to bounce around in a 1900 for 300 hours. When the PCL CNC goes to the bargaining table, PCL management doesn't throw down the GIA contract on the table. They throw down the Skywest "employee handbook" with the same payrates for 50-99 seat airplanes and say "the non-union Skywest pilots do it for the same rate, so you should too."

 

[JoeMerchant]

As you know, I already admit that that was wrong. When are the Skywest union haters going to admit that they're wrong? I'm waiting patiently.

You didn't answer the question..... does paying Gulfstream not also meet the definition of a scab that you provided?

But to answer your question, Skywest being non-union is far more harmful to the profession than a handful of newbies down in South Florida paying to bounce around in a 1900 for 300 hours. When the PCL CNC goes to the bargaining table, PCL management doesn't throw down the GIA contract on the table. They throw down the Skywest "employee handbook" with the same payrates for 50-99 seat airplanes and say "the non-union Skywest pilots do it for the same rate, so you should too."

You live on the big river in Egypt..... The fact of the matter is the PCL pilots would have a better deal if they worked under the pay and rules of Skywest.....

Here at ASA, the PCL contract, and the Mesa contract did far more harm than the Skywest "employee handbook"..... Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that..... That is why ALPA is losing credibility......It was fellow union downward pressure that hurt us at ASA......

 

[Papa Woody]

You live on the big river in Egypt.......

I don't get it.

What does the Ganges River have to do with this?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't get it.

What does the Ganges River have to do with this?

.....well since the Ganges is in India, not Egypt, I guess the connection is that working for Gulfstream is like working in India.........

 

[PCL_128]

You didn't answer the question..... does paying Gulfstream not also meet the definition of a scab that you provided?

Gulfstream is an IBT airline, so therefore, no, working at GIA does not fit the definition you provided. GIA has been union for a long time.

The fact of the matter is the PCL pilots would have a better deal if they worked under the pay and rules of Skywest.....

The pilots of Pinnacle will be better off with the legally binding contract that they negotiate.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Gulfstream is an IBT airline, so therefore, no, working at GIA does not fit the definition you provided.

So paying to sit in the right seat doesn't meet the definition:
(4): one who works for less than union wages

The pilots of Pinnacle will be better off with the legally binding contract that they negotiate.

Nice tapdance..... who has better pay and workrules? Reminds me of the TommyBoy line about putting a guarantee on the box....... A "legally binding" POS isn't better than what Skywest has....

"Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of $h!t. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me."

 

[PCL_128]

So paying to sit in the right seat doesn't meet the definition

No. Plenty of unionized regionals (yours included, as you know from personal experience) had PFT. Many unionized regionals to this day don't have anything in their contracts to prevent their companies from requiring PFT. PFT is bad, but it isn't scabbing by any definition that I can find.

Nice tapdance..... who has better pay and workrules?

We'll find out after the PCL pilots get a new contract. Their current contract is 9 years old. But in the end, it's always better to have union protection than not.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We'll find out after the PCL pilots get a new contract. Their current contract is 9 years old. But in the end, it's always better to have union protection than not.

....using your definition, it is better to work for Gulfstream than for Skywest.... Are you saying you would rather work for Gulfstream than for Skywest....

If you answer YES to that question, then you truly don't understand why people have trouble with ALPA.....

You already said you would rather work for Mesa than for Skywest..... Gulfstream too?

 

[PCL_128]

Are you saying you would rather work for Gulfstream than for Skywest....

I wouldn't want to work for either. I don't trust the IBT to represent air line pilots, so it's barely more valuable than no representation at all. The possible exception would be at a large regional like RAH that has a large enough pilot group to draw resources from. At GIA, the IBT just doesn't work. They need a real union like ALPA to be effective at that airline.

 

[viper548]

When the PCL CNC goes to the bargaining table, PCL management doesn't throw down the GIA contract on the table. They throw down the Skywest "employee handbook" with the same payrates for 50-99 seat airplanes and say "the non-union Skywest pilots do it for the same rate, so you should too."

When Great Lakes, Big Sky and all the other 1900 operators go to the bargaining table they throw down the GIA contract and ask why they should pay FO's more than $15/hr when GIA has the FO's paying them

 

[Sticky]

One time I hired a monkey to take notes for me in class. I would just sit there with my mind a complete blank while the monkey scribbled on little pieces of paper.

One day the teacher said "class...write a paper using your notes"

So, I wrote a paper that said "Hello! My name is Bingo. I like to climb on things. Can I have a bananna? EEK! EEK!"

I got an F.

When I told my mom about it, she said "I told you never trust a monkey!"

Thee end.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I wouldn't want to work for either. I don't trust the IBT to represent air line pilots, so it's barely more valuable than no representation at all. The possible exception would be at a large regional like RAH that has a large enough pilot group to draw resources from. At GIA, the IBT just doesn't work. They need a real union like ALPA to be effective at that airline.

So when IBT doesn't work at an airline, it is all the fault of the National IBT union....After all, you said it works at CHQ, and we know it works at Horizon.... The Horizon IBT pilots make about 20 bucks an hour more to fly the 700 than any other ALPA carrier.... In fact the highest paid 700 pilots are CHQ and Horizon, both IBT.....But when there is a failure at an ALPA carrier, it is all the fault of the pilots at that carrier and ALPA National bears no blame....

A little bit of a double standard there don't ya think....

If Gulfstream was ALPA, you would blame the pilots of Gulfstream.....Since they are IBT, it is the fault of IBT..... You must be on the Herndon payroll.....

By the way you said it was better to have a "legally binding contract".....Gulfstream has that.....Which one would you rather work for....Gulfstream or Skywest? Answer the question......

 

[JoeMerchant]

When Great Lakes, Big Sky and all the other 1900 operators go to the bargaining table they throw down the GIA contract and ask why they should pay FO's more than $15/hr when GIA has the FO's paying them

OUCH!!!! That's going to leave a mark.......

 

[PCL_128]

When Great Lakes, Big Sky and all the other 1900 operators go to the bargaining table they throw down the GIA contract and ask why they should pay FO's more than $15/hr when GIA has the FO's paying them

GIA FOs are the highest paid BE1900 FOs in the industry, so I doubt management at any other carriers will be trying to emulate the GIA contract.

 

[JoeMerchant]

GIA FOs are the highest paid BE1900 FOs in the industry, so I doubt management at any other carriers will be trying to emulate the GIA contract.

....not for the first 250 hours.....

By the way, non-union Colgan FOs make more than the union GIA FOs......

 

[viper548]

GIA FOs are the highest paid BE1900 FOs in the industry, so I doubt management at any other carriers will be trying to emulate the GIA contract.

I know their FO's are the highest paying passengers. At GIA the numbers on the W2 are red. What does that program cost, $25K. So if a FO at Great Lakes makes $20K, they made 45K more than the GIA FO

 

[PCL_128]

So when IBT doesn't work at an airline, it is all the fault of the National IBT union....A little bit of a double standard there don't ya think....

Not really. The IBT simply isn't set up to represent air line pilots. I'm sure they do a great job for truckers, but pilots need representation that understands their career, especially at a small carrier like GIA that needs all the experienced help it can get. The IBT can't provide that help, but ALPA can. At carriers like Horizon and RAH, they have a large enough pilot group that they can mitigate this problem with the experience base that they have. GIA only has about 250 pilots, half of which are brand new to the industry. Not a very good knowledge base to run a union from without vast assistance from a national organization that understands pilot issues.

By the way you said it was better to have a "legally binding contract".....Gulfstream has that.....Which one would you rather work for....Gulfstream or Skywest? Answer the question......

I thought I did. I wouldn't work for either. I don't believe the union representation at GIA to be adequate, and Skywest doesn't have any at all. Neither carrier fits my needs, so I wouldn't work for either.

 

[PCL_128]

I know their FO's are the highest paying passengers. At GIA the numbers on the W2 are red. What does that program cost, $25K. So if a FO at Great Lakes makes $20K, they made 45K more than the GIA FO

From what I've been hearing, GIA can't fill PFT classes anymore. They are apparently hiring FOs off the street just like any other 1900 operator.

 

[viper548]

From what I've been hearing, GIA can't fill PFT classes anymore. They are apparently hiring FOs off the street just like any other 1900 operator.

I think Jet University stole all their potential business. With regional hiring with a wet commercial cert, I can't imagine GIA getting any more PFT'ers.