Skywest info?

[asarjfo]

Yea, nothing like riding on the "coat tails" of the union carriers and then turning around a raping the DFW hub! Yea, yea....I know you "can't turn down the flying" its not your decision after all where you fly.

I am not bashing Sky West pilots as a group, just those that prefer to wait for the ALPA groups to negotiate a better deal then run to mgmt. and say "match this or else we will get ALPA on the property!!!"

With our contract at ASA coming due in Sept. is sure is nice for them to get as much Skywest flying out of DFW as quickly as possible so we have no leverage. Which is kind of ironic because when it comes time for us to negotiate we will get less, which in turn means you can't run to your mgmt. and get that big raise we tried to get because you raided our hub. Kind of like chasing you tail, huh?

Good luck to all

 

[AirBoard]

asarjfo,

Before you assume Skywest is raiding your DFW domicile prior to contract negotiations you should take a look at your Comair brothers first. What happend to Delta's connection business in CVG when Comair went on strike - It brought that side to it knees.

So along comes mother Delta again and says ACA will do some more flying out of CVG - we don't want all our eggs in one basket sorta speak. No talk of raiding by Comair pilots I hope - they have lots of flying. We (ACA, ASA, Comair, Skywest) are all at Delta's beck and call. This domicile re-alignment is not orchastrated by one regional - only by Delta itself. Besides, what's this about Delta saying the majority of regional flying is going to the best company in the end.

I can't stand hearing one pilot group in the Delta family complaining about anothers presence - especially WHEN YOUR STILL FLYING JUST AS MUCH. A lot is going to happen in the next year and we're all getting shuffled around, ACA is already operating 20 flight out of CVG with plans for a maintenace base. As long as the flying's there we can't be complaining. If you get furloghed while Skywest keeps flying - then you've got a point.

Regards,

AirBoard

 

[asarjfo]

TO QUOTE.......

"Also, when ASA's contract is signed and ratified, will SkyWest match the EMB-120 pay increase? Any thoughts?

Tailwinds...

AND AGAIN.....
"SkyWest management is committed to providing the leading total compensation package among its competitors flying our type equipment. When we reach the end of our current pay schedule (June 2003), I imagine the pilot group will look at the best packages out there and say "Match this."

I was simply responding to the above posts regarding how some of the Skywest pilots go about "negotiating" new pay rates and how that affects the other union Delta Connection groups. The last time I checked the Deltamatic, ASA has one new city scheduled for FEB and one for MAR compared to the 5 or 6 for Skywest. I realize "mother Delta" is just protecting their best interests, but it sure makes it easy when they can grow the non-union company. I am happy that we have not furloughed, but not to happy about the fact that upgrades are almost a thing of the past and there is no end to that in sight. If Delta plans on spreading the flying around, why has ASA not moved into SLC and CVG....could it be because our contract is coming up? I just think in the long run Skywest will hurt the rest of us as long as the pilot group remains non-union.

 

[Caveman]

I have to agree with ASARJFO. It's awful easy to sit back and let someone else do the grunt work of raising the bar and then capitalize on our efforts without so much as a "Thank you very much." It's especially annoying when they also say that they are proudly a nonunion shop. Do they have the right to do so? Yep, it's a free country. It still pisses me off. What makes it even harder is that I have some very close friends that fly for SkyWest. I know the pilots don't make the marketing decisions, but they do control whether or not they are going to be a union shop. So far they seem to prefer sitting in the stands and getting their names on the trophy without even suiting up for the game.

 

[Smoove Ride]

caveman.... before we get off on another union debate, ask your friends at skywest how close the last ALPA vote was. they'll tell you it lost by 1%. try and not make broad generalizations about "all" those non-union skywest pilots. there are a lot of us here that want to see a union (maybe not ALPA) at skywest. thanks.. -sr.

 

[Caveman]

You are correct. It was a close vote. None-the-less, the majority voted 'no'. Let me be very candid with you. SkyWest was right up there as my airline of choice. One big reason was that they were non-union. I'm still not convinced that unions are the best way to do things, but having been on this side of the fence for a while I see the upside and the downside. I do recognize that when our competition isn't a union shop it makes it more attractive for management to send the flying to them. Hey all's fair in love and business, but I don't have to like it.

 

[g159av8tor]

Caveman,

In reference to why SkyWest is currently non-union, please ask yourself what actions in the past by management at the airline in which you're currently employed motivated and resulted in the pilots organizing? Unioninzing is usually a reaction (with adequate reason) to ineffective, misguided and selfish management. Why unionize if management plays ball when the chips are on the table? "Cause everyone else is!!!" is a poor, incompetent and unoriginal answer.

Unions exist only because they are necessary at that company. A non-union shop speaks volumes of the working conditions, competent management, benefits, etc. Currently, I fly at a 135 operator whose entire pilot corps and I wish were represented and backed by a union. But, when I leave that mess in the past and finally get a class date with SkyWest and become a line pilot and a union vote takes place, I'll vote accordingly.

Tailwinds...

 

[sabreliner]

g159av8tor:

IMHO:

Not to be harsh, but when you get into the 121 airline business, you may understand the reasons that most pilot groups are part of ALPA. It is much more than a simple response to poor management, though that is where ALPA has its roots. ALPA is our voice in many things, and the unity it has provided over the many years it has existed has furthered the careers of ALL pilots, union or not.

The SkyWest pilots don't have a good management to thank for their good working conditions. They instead have their thousands of peers who do contribute their hard earned dollars and scarce free time. Over many years, and many long hard fights, ALPA shops have won the good conditions that the SkyWest pilots now enjoy. Notice that they don't have anything better than the best out there. Their CL65 rates suppossedly mirror those at Comair, while the E120 is suppossedly the same as ours here at ASA. Kind of an interesting coincidence, isn't it?

Now, the animosity that a lot of guys here at ASA feel grows not necessairly from the SkyWest pilots. I've run into a lot of them at OUR hub in DFW, and they are almost without exception good people. That animosity comes more from the fact that we are going into contract negotiations, on the heel of Comair's marginally successful 89 day battle. We are doing it with a new DCI chief who has made it clear to us that we are expendable. We are doing it as we watch Comair come into our hubs, and SkyWest into our hubs. And, we are doing it with the very large threat of a strike proof carrier knocking on our door. We see the whole package a very large threat to our jobs and continued growth.

Having Comair come into our hubs is bad enough, but they are essentially us anyway, and we know what that very unified pilot group is capable of. Hopefully in the not too distant future, Comair and ASA won't exist any more, only a unified Delta Connection operation with our two companies. SkyWest is as you know another story though. To an extent, so is ACA. (just to be fair, I have friends at Comair and ACA too!) Neither them will ever be merged unless Delta buys them too. So, flying and airplanes they get could very well be lost to our pilot groups for ever, instead of hopefully being integrated some day. SkyWest is simply seen as a larger threat by our pilots in contract negotiations due to SKW's lack of a Union, and Fred Buttrell's recent comments.

Hope that may help explain why a lot of us feel the way that we do. SKW is being used as a threat against us. Bad place for everyone to be.

Maybe I'll see you in DFW (or SLC!!) some day in the near future.

 

[sabreliner]

Oh yeah, one more thing to add. For those of you who question why the union is a good thing (and I mean usually a good thing, everything has it's bad side) I would suggest you investigate the history of our union. You will find that ALPA has done much much more for us than most people not in the business ever realize. It is not just about pay rates.

If you can find them, the 2 books that George Hopkins wrote about the history of ALPA are well worth reading. They are entitled "Flying the Line, Volume I and II." They detail the history of ALPA, from the very begining up through about 1990. Very eye opening for me as a new ALPA member when I joined my first airline. Fortunately, our MEC at Allegheny provided them for us. I wish all MEC's did. Definitly worth the time and money if you have to buy them.

Frats,

Matt Vitale
ASA E120 Captain, DFW

 

[g159av8tor]

Sabreliner,

I'm in the process of reading Volume One. Good history. These books have been recommended to me by most of my airline buddies. Thanks for sharing your point of view. Its great that this board allows people from different backgrounds to learn about one another--it helps diminish steroetypes and bigotry.

Tailwinds...