Skywest info?

[Caveman]

You are correct. It was a close vote. None-the-less, the majority voted 'no'. Let me be very candid with you. SkyWest was right up there as my airline of choice. One big reason was that they were non-union. I'm still not convinced that unions are the best way to do things, but having been on this side of the fence for a while I see the upside and the downside. I do recognize that when our competition isn't a union shop it makes it more attractive for management to send the flying to them. Hey all's fair in love and business, but I don't have to like it.

 

[g159av8tor]

Caveman,

In reference to why SkyWest is currently non-union, please ask yourself what actions in the past by management at the airline in which you're currently employed motivated and resulted in the pilots organizing? Unioninzing is usually a reaction (with adequate reason) to ineffective, misguided and selfish management. Why unionize if management plays ball when the chips are on the table? "Cause everyone else is!!!" is a poor, incompetent and unoriginal answer.

Unions exist only because they are necessary at that company. A non-union shop speaks volumes of the working conditions, competent management, benefits, etc. Currently, I fly at a 135 operator whose entire pilot corps and I wish were represented and backed by a union. But, when I leave that mess in the past and finally get a class date with SkyWest and become a line pilot and a union vote takes place, I'll vote accordingly.

Tailwinds...

 

[sabreliner]

g159av8tor:

IMHO:

Not to be harsh, but when you get into the 121 airline business, you may understand the reasons that most pilot groups are part of ALPA. It is much more than a simple response to poor management, though that is where ALPA has its roots. ALPA is our voice in many things, and the unity it has provided over the many years it has existed has furthered the careers of ALL pilots, union or not.

The SkyWest pilots don't have a good management to thank for their good working conditions. They instead have their thousands of peers who do contribute their hard earned dollars and scarce free time. Over many years, and many long hard fights, ALPA shops have won the good conditions that the SkyWest pilots now enjoy. Notice that they don't have anything better than the best out there. Their CL65 rates suppossedly mirror those at Comair, while the E120 is suppossedly the same as ours here at ASA. Kind of an interesting coincidence, isn't it?

Now, the animosity that a lot of guys here at ASA feel grows not necessairly from the SkyWest pilots. I've run into a lot of them at OUR hub in DFW, and they are almost without exception good people. That animosity comes more from the fact that we are going into contract negotiations, on the heel of Comair's marginally successful 89 day battle. We are doing it with a new DCI chief who has made it clear to us that we are expendable. We are doing it as we watch Comair come into our hubs, and SkyWest into our hubs. And, we are doing it with the very large threat of a strike proof carrier knocking on our door. We see the whole package a very large threat to our jobs and continued growth.

Having Comair come into our hubs is bad enough, but they are essentially us anyway, and we know what that very unified pilot group is capable of. Hopefully in the not too distant future, Comair and ASA won't exist any more, only a unified Delta Connection operation with our two companies. SkyWest is as you know another story though. To an extent, so is ACA. (just to be fair, I have friends at Comair and ACA too!) Neither them will ever be merged unless Delta buys them too. So, flying and airplanes they get could very well be lost to our pilot groups for ever, instead of hopefully being integrated some day. SkyWest is simply seen as a larger threat by our pilots in contract negotiations due to SKW's lack of a Union, and Fred Buttrell's recent comments.

Hope that may help explain why a lot of us feel the way that we do. SKW is being used as a threat against us. Bad place for everyone to be.

Maybe I'll see you in DFW (or SLC!!) some day in the near future.

 

[sabreliner]

Oh yeah, one more thing to add. For those of you who question why the union is a good thing (and I mean usually a good thing, everything has it's bad side) I would suggest you investigate the history of our union. You will find that ALPA has done much much more for us than most people not in the business ever realize. It is not just about pay rates.

If you can find them, the 2 books that George Hopkins wrote about the history of ALPA are well worth reading. They are entitled "Flying the Line, Volume I and II." They detail the history of ALPA, from the very begining up through about 1990. Very eye opening for me as a new ALPA member when I joined my first airline. Fortunately, our MEC at Allegheny provided them for us. I wish all MEC's did. Definitly worth the time and money if you have to buy them.

Frats,

Matt Vitale
ASA E120 Captain, DFW

 

[g159av8tor]

Sabreliner,

I'm in the process of reading Volume One. Good history. These books have been recommended to me by most of my airline buddies. Thanks for sharing your point of view. Its great that this board allows people from different backgrounds to learn about one another--it helps diminish steroetypes and bigotry.

Tailwinds...