Skywest, ASA DOH integration?

[front9]

SKYW pilots WILL have a seat at the table come Nov. 6. where the hell have you been?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hold on a min... you sir are the one that is totally clueless. Please read my post again...you missed the sarcasm (you see where I said "But seriously")

BTW, did you even read my post or just cut and past and get all emotional like you always do? I did not say I would put my life in BH or JA's hand. Do you even work for SKYW or ASA? Do you have a dog in this fight or are you just some flamer?

Have a nice day

Wellll,
I read your post, completely missed your reference to sarcasm. I am quite clueless, I just can't resist jousting with the drinkers of kool-aid. Your sarcasm sounded like kool-aid to me. My dog is in the fight(see left), and he has a vested interest in the fight, you see his food comes from my paycheck.
PBR
P.S. chalk this one up to a hair trigger keyboard!

 

[No.W.]

No matter what, a merger would be hard. With ALPA at both companies...it's going to be better than without. IMHO JA and friends would simply do what costs the least both in time and money. There would be the typical SAPA(if there is no SKWALPA) spin on the agreement and the typical people would bite off on it. There would be some kind of campaign to keep all the SAPA lovers happy. Then, after all is said and done, we would be integrated.

HOWEVER, if ALPA is voted in at SkyWest...things will be at least slightly different. It is my belief that things would be better. That is why I voted yes...at least one reason.

 

[front9]

Its always tough to be sarcastic with just written words alone. The Kool-Aid drinkers such as DL ME and JB will soon be out of their cushy SAPA job. Most likely they will have some management position waiting for them at Skyw come NOV. 6 (special projects just like TF)

I see that you indeed have a vested interest and I for one am in this to protect the interests and career development of SKYW pilots not ASA.

ASA pilots on this board use buzz-words like unity, brotherhood etc etc when they were first bought by SKYW in 05'. They talk about how they would fairly integrate the list had ASA bought us instead.

Now all I see are vicious attacks and threats against SKYW pilots and how they(ASA) are going to merge DOH. Over my dead body they will. Sorry if I get a little passionate about this debate but I strongly believe in SKYW pilots and our future and work hard to make sure that we are protected as a pilot group.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Its always tough to be sarcastic with just written words alone. The Kool-Aid drinkers such as DL ME and JB will soon be out of their cushy SAPA job. Most likely they will have some management position waiting for them at Skyw come NOV. 6 (special projects just like TF)

I see that you indeed have a vested interest and I for one am in this to protect the interests and career development of SKYW pilots not ASA.

ASA pilots on this board use buzz-words like unity, brotherhood etc etc when they were first bought by SKYW in 05'. They talk about how they would fairly integrate the list had ASA bought us instead.

Now all I see are vicious attacks and threats against SKYW pilots and how they(ASA) are going to merge DOH. Over my dead body they will. Sorry if I get a little passionate about this debate but I strongly believe in SKYW pilots and our future and work hard to make sure that we are protected as a pilot group.

Hey,
The only way to insure that we have a seat at the table is to be collectively bargained. SKYW success is in part due to the pilots, and I for one am tired of being looked at as a line item cost. JA and et al started looking at us as a commodity, units that produce a profit margin. They used to care about us, no longer! PBS reserve bucket system, systematic dismantling of our health insurance, all in the interest of profit. If we don't look out for each other who will? BH, DL, DA, TF, KB, et al. Whatever happens will happen, I am a firm believer that the single carrier petition is just on the other side of the vote, only time will tell. I don't listen to St George, I just watch for what is happening and wait to see how it will affect me.
PBR
P.S. Good luck, we are gonna need it if the vote fails. I see the extra delux cornholeing coming our way.

 

[CFI2766]

I know that we're all fairly boring people, with not much going on in our lives, but do you think it might be just a little premature to be discussing this topic with this much passion?

 

[Nevets]

But seriously, if you want to start with DOH at the negotiating table I will make sure we at Skywest start negotiations with STAPLE, cant wait to see you at the table J.P. I have a feeling the judge will throw out the one list anyway and keep us separate.

First, let me start by saying that I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Second, it is NOT premature to have this conversation since Skywest Inc can decide to merge the seniority list tomorrow.

Third, like I said in my previous post, if the seniority list is merged AND Skywest pilots are NOT represented by a union certified by the NMB, then the Skywest pilots would be represented by Skywest management in negotiations, mediation, arbitration, if applicable, with ASA pilots (NOT ASA management). [apologies for the run on sentence] The two parties would be bound by the A-M LPP sections 3 and 13. Which means that the seniority integration has to be "fair and equitable" (section 3) and if they cannot come to an agreement they would go into mediation and arbitration if necessary (section 13). The definition of "fair and equitable" is left to the two parties, Skywest management and ASA pilots. All this because ASA's CBA says so.

Now, if Skywest pilots were represented by ALPA, ALPA Merger Policy must be used. ASA pilots would negotiate seniority integration directly with Skywest pilots (management NOT involved). [FONT=&quot][/FONT]The Skywest pilots and ASA pilots w[FONT=&quot]ould "attempt to [/FONT]match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Preserve jobs.

b.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations"[/FONT]


Which means that the two parties can use fences, staplers, DOH, combination of them, etc. to reach a fair and equitable solution keeping in mind the above list in whatever priority the two parties decide. If there is no agreement, the two parties go to mediation and arbitration if necessary.

The point is that unless Skywest pilots are represented by a union certified by the NMB, they will NOT have a seat in negotiations for seniority integration.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Nev,
I read the AMLP posted on various places on the internet. The only pilot groups I read about that were addressed were collectively bargained units. The stuff I was reading was mind numbing and I could have missed it but the Act reads as if it only relates to collectively bargained units. Since ASA is collectively bargained, the absolute minimum that would apply to their merger solution would be the provisions to the Act. If they negotiated a deal that exceeded the provisions to the Act(staple of SKYW to the bottom) the Act would be satisifed. If SKYW wanted to staple the ASA guys the AMLP Act would be invoked. I am not a lawyer, so someone with a law education can post a summary showing how the SKYW pilot group is protected by the Act.
PBR

P.S. Found this at our favorite law firm Ford and Harrison, who has been retained by SKYW.

http://www.matkovsalzman.com/shownews.aspx?show=2888

After deregulation, the CAB announced that it would no longer require LPPs as a matter of course, but only under special circumstances. When the Department of Transportation (DOT) acquired jurisdiction over the airline mergers in 1985, it reiterated the policy against LPPs and consistently rejected requests for their imposition. The DOT has repeatedly stated that mandatory LPPs are inconsistent with deregulation and that if employees want merger protections they should obtain them through collective bargaining. Accordingly, airline unions have routinely negotiated merger and succession provisions into their labor contracts.

 

[PCL_128]

PBR, the reason that the LPPs would be invoked is due to the merger language in the ASA CBA. Their current contract, as well as their TA, both contain a clause that requires the LPPs to be used to determine integration with a non-union pilot group. This is standard ALPA contract language.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR, the reason that the LPPs would be invoked is due to the merger language in the ASA CBA. Their current contract, as well as their TA, both contain a clause that requires the LPPs to be used to determine integration with a non-union pilot group. This is standard ALPA contract language.

Agreed, but the SKYW pilots don't even have any hope of any protections via the AMLP. The AMLP would only apply to the integration formula as if applies to the ASA guys, if the ASA guys were stapled to the bottom of the list the LPPs would apply, and negotiations would ensue right up to arbitration. If the SKYW pilots were stapled to the bottom of the ASA list, they have no recourse., infact there could be SKYW furloughs, Capt or F/O, there is no contract to prevent furlough out of seniority. This is really so huge, that I cannot believe that more SKYW guys aren't getting concerned! I applaud the ASA guys who protect themselves. As well as all the other ALPA pilot groups who avail themselves of the collective bargaining shield. As far as the SKYW pilot group, this vote will be decided by the junior pilots, if the vote fails, it will be their fault and the consequences of that failed vote will fall on them(delayed upgrades). Since a single carrier petition would almost be a certainty, and the ensuing representation vote would include the ASA pilots , ALPA would most likely be successful. The junior ASA pilots would then be able to upgrade ahead of the junior pilots at SKYW.
PBR
You hear this jea? your fast upgrade, in fact your very employment may not be as secure as you think! I hope you are our first furlough(out of senority, because you are a $hithead!)