SkyWest ALPA

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm not "the" expert. Others in ALPA and the RJDC are a lot smarter than I am but I will give it a shot:
1. ALPA needs an effective judiciary branch where a pilot, or group, can resolve grievances dealing with the harmful activities of another competing pilot group.

Judiciary branch? Like the Supreme Court with (mainline) Judges appointed by Duane Woerth? Not sure if that is the right idea. Fins, it just seems to be that you are tied to the Brand. And your efforts never seem to fully address this. Without the Brand the ASA/CMR pilots have nothing. (same with all regional pilots who feed). In addition, the mainline pilots generate the primary revenue, whilst, regionals are ancilliary.

2. ALPA needs powerful and effective National leadership to restrain the predatory inclinations of pilots against one another.

No, you just want ALPA National to see things your way.

3. ALPA needs to reform its constitution and bylaws to restore its merger and fragmentation polisies, as well as the restoration of other sections which were removed specifically to enable predatory bargaining. The changes just prior to the 2000 BOD meeting serves as a partial example.

Where these changes democratic?

4. ALPA needs to philosophically return to the days when our union did not want low pilot wages to enable one airline to unfairly compete against another airline. As you know, ALPA has endorsed every single concessionary contract in force today.

Huh? of course they endorsed it, if it wasn't endorsed in wouldn't be inforced. That is like saying Congress has approved every law in the CFR! Well, of course, how else did the law become law?

But again, you are asking ALPA to manipulate market forces.

5. Once the floor is established we need to return to jacking up the house, one corner at a time, by establishing a pattern of only endorsing progressive contracts.

Of course we need to get back to jacking up the house, but we need growth and profits. Again, ALPA's ability to jack UP house also enables management to jack DOWN the house. We can't pick and choose what bargaining structure we want when it suits our needs.

6. The union needs to stop shinking and grow.

It is hard to grow when ALPA is fighting lawsuits.....

Your examples of UAL's 2000 contract and Delta's 2001 contract were not restrained by ASA's 1998 contract, or any rights given to any ASA, or Comair pilots. In my opinion ALPA today could not obtain those contracts because it lacks the organization to achieve them (gutting the Constitution and removing the rules tends to cause any organization to begin running amok). I don't know how having a fair union representing all pilots equally would cause a reduction in ALPA's bargaining ability. After all, aren't the Delta and Northwest pilots currently negotiating rates that are less than the established regional rates? It appears to me that ALPA's acceptance of alter ego competition has resulted in more competitors driving the price lower.

If your point is that ALPA should be able to negotiate higher wages for mainline on the backs of First Officers at ASA and Skywest, then I disagree with you. Mainline pilots do feel like theirs are the only "real" jobs and that small jet jobs are simply for losers and a place to serve an apprenticeship. I disagree strongly with that view and believe that all of us are in a profession together. Sure mainline pilots should make more, but they should not recieve a bonus for selling their scope to an underpaid regional pilot.

I hope this isn't a respect thing? Do you feel disrespect by the mainline guys? See my answer to your #1 latter half.

The RJDC lawsuit not only seeks to roll back the clock, it provides a stiff penalty if ALPA fails to take corrective action. The litigants sked nicely, attended LEC and MEC meetings, proposed resolutions, took their arguements to ALPA National, the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee and the President of the union. ALPA refused to take any corrective action, effectively telling the pilots they really should negotiate with the Delta MEC to solve an ALPA problem.

Isn't ALPA national simply addressing the needs of the many over the needs of the few? Choices have to made. Sure it would be nice if ALPA could be all things to all pilots all the time... but the real world says it isn't possible.

Again, I'm not "the" expert, but clearly ALPA could do a lot better if it listened to the input of all of its members instead of a select few. That is the nature of a Democratic union. Like our nation, ALPA can follow the will of the majority, while protecting the rights of the minority.

Rights of the regional pilots? It is one thing to build a ramp so people with wheelchiars can access buildings... that is the will of the majority and rights of the miniorty. But you want to build your ramp over the steps, not next to them. And you want a marble ramp like the stairs, instead of plywood.

Should the regional pilots benifit at the mainline pilots expense when the regional pilots contributions are ancilliary to the Brand?

Regards,
~~~^~~~

.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I just got a copy of the vote in the e-mail. If there was an error, I have not seen the correction posted. Given the other activities at Northwest, I assumed the vote was correct, but if you have different information, I will defer to you on the matter.

The Rep was brand new in the postion and misunderstood the vote. Besides, and nontheless, the resolution passed, so quit trying to use it as a divisive tactic.

ALPA would not provide any solution outside of litigation. Believe me, funding litigation to try to fix our union was a last resort. That is part of the problem, if a pilot has a beef against the company, ALPA will gladly fight management. If you have a beef with the union, you have to file a lawsuit.

No, if you have a beef with the union or the gov't or any democratic organization, you get the majority rule...which has been done. But you press on with a lawsuit....

Current economics have nothing to do with the RJDC. The RJDC came together in 1999 and 2000 as a result of changes ALPA made to our Constitution and the way the changes were immediately employed by some MEC's to harm other pilot groups. ALPA's leadership problems are not the result of the current economic environment, but the terrible state of our industry has made the problems in ALPA much more obvious (and harmful) to our members.

Again...majority rules?

From a SkyWest pilot's perspective, is it better to be represented by someone who represents the interests of the SkyWest pilots, or is it better to be represented by ALPA, who pushes the interests of the Delta pilots? There are a lot of Delta pilots who feel it would be better for Skywest pilots if Skywest did not exist - after all regional jobs are not "real" jobs.

Perhaps that is what you should be doing.... pushing to decertify ALPA at ASA and get an in house union. That way all your ALPA problems will disapear...or reappear in a different form....

I think we have scared the hel1 out of the Skywest pilots with this internal soap opera.... and have done more harm that good....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think some pilots at SKYW may be watching the situation at NWA closely. ALPA appears anxious to once again abrogate seniority at a regional just the way they did at the Airways WO's. If ALPA really wants to recruit SKYW pilots they should knock that crap off and respect seniority at all ALPA carriers, not just mainline. It's particularly ironic that the only J4J agreement that does not sacrifice regional pilot seniority and career progression was negotiated by a non-union carrier.

Dave Ben,

As I just explained to your colleague Fins.....

The regionals feed the mainline. The mainline pilots are greater in numbers and by the work they do, they generate more revenue for the Brand. Simply put, a B777 and its cargo generates more revenue when it lands in Europe than a CR7 when in lands in DTW!

Without the Brand regional pilots have nothing. The regional pilots contributions to the Brand are secondary in every level to the mainline pilots.

There are win win solutions, but lawsuits are not it....

 

[007]

Skywest will never become Union until it gets a managment with a business degree. Jerry's knows just how much screwing he can do before people get pissed. Once he leaves and they get a greedy MBA in there that will all change.

Screw it, how about 50-199 seats for the same pay. But you can say you're a major airline pilot now. Their top won't blow before then.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave Ben,

As I just explained to your colleague Fins.....

The regionals feed the mainline. The mainline pilots are greater in numbers and by the work they do, they generate more revenue for the Brand. Simply put, a B777 and its cargo generates more revenue when it lands in Europe than a CR7 when in lands in DTW!

Without the Brand regional pilots have nothing. The regional pilots contributions to the Brand are secondary in every level to the mainline pilots.

There are win win solutions, but lawsuits are not it....

Rez,
I wasn't advocating lawsuits. All I'm saying is that seniority should be respected whether you fly 777's or Beech 1900's. ALPA fought hard for a seniority system and while it has faults, seniority needs to remain sacred. If ALPA wants to attract SKYW pilots they need to quit shafting other regional pilot groups.

Your comments are nothing but fodder for ALPA represented regionals to switch their union affiliation to IBT or to a new union of some sort. What you're saying is that regional pilots are second class citizens and are unworthy of fair representation. Based on that why should SKYW pilots vote for ALPA? Why should current ALPA represented regionals stay with ALPA? Those are the tough questions that need answers.

Your comment "The regional pilots contributions to the Brand are secondary in every level to the mainline pilots. " is irresponsible and untrue in many respects. Mainline cannot economically service many smaller markets. That B777 landing in Europe wouldn't have too many pax onboard without regional feed bringing those folks to the hubs. Mainline wouldn't last long without feed. Like it or not it's a codependent relationship my friend.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Skywest will never become Union until it gets a managment with a business degree.

Better not tell anyone that Jerry has a B.S. in accounting and an MBA from the University of Utah. He was working as an accountant in SLC when his uncle recruited him to return to St. George and try to save a small airline on the brink of financial ruin.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Sounds like 737 Pylt needs to get back on his meds................ sheesh.


AF

 

[007]

Better not tell anyone that Jerry has a B.S. in accounting and an MBA from the University of Utah. He was working as an accountant in SLC when his uncle recruited him to return to St. George and try to save a small airline on the brink of financial ruin.

Touche'

Rephrase, your honor, " gets managment that cares more about greed than it's survival "

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
I wasn't advocating lawsuits. All I'm saying is that seniority should be respected whether you fly 777's or Beech 1900's. ALPA fought hard for a seniority system and while it has faults, seniority needs to remain sacred. If ALPA wants to attract SKYW pilots they need to quit shafting other regional pilot groups.

Your comments are nothing but fodder for ALPA represented regionals to switch their union affiliation to IBT or to a new union of some sort. What you're saying is that regional pilots are second class citizens and are unworthy of fair representation. Based on that why should SKYW pilots vote for ALPA? Why should current ALPA represented regionals stay with ALPA? Those are the tough questions that need answers.

Your comment "The regional pilots contributions to the Brand are secondary in every level to the mainline pilots. " is irresponsible and untrue in many respects. Mainline cannot economically service many smaller markets. That B777 landing in Europe wouldn't have too many pax onboard without regional feed bringing those folks to the hubs. Mainline wouldn't last long without feed. Like it or not it's a codependent relationship my friend.

Valid point...... my comments were made in the spirit of debate and do not reflect the real world........ Thanks for the reality check...