Skyway/Delta deal not happening..

[metroplex]

House X

242..... catch the men!!!

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

MINISTRY.....A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste...I thought it tasted like chicken...thats not terrible

 

[248to2.8]

MINISTRY.....A Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste...I thought it tasted like chicken...thats not terrible

Hijack, Hijack!

Hehehe

 

[propsare4boats]

The Skyway intranet site

what skyway intranet site?

 

[Yudso]

YXnet

 

[meatwallet]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=49652

Is this true: Comair 3/21 class for the 328jet ??

No jets for YX for sure??

 

[P38JLightning]

flame

>>>>Is this true: Comair 3/21 class for the 328jet ??

>>>>No jets for YX for sure??


The only thing that is "true" about this is that it is a possibility only insofar as anything is a possibility because no one knows for sure right now what will happen to the DoJets or who if anyone will fly them. Whoever posted that was either trying to flame or was just yanking some chains.

As for the 3/21 DoJet class, I'd bet good money that rumor is totally false.

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Is this true: Comair 3/21 class for the 328jet ??

No jets for YX for sure??

Have no clue. I guess you'll find out March 21st...

HMM

 

[Propsfullfwd]

I just hear that all the Dojets have finished being inspected. So lets see what is next...

Props

 

[viper01]

I was just having fun about the Dojet comment. I have know idea where they'll go or who will drive them, but you never know, ComedyAir could. You guys/girls are too easy.

 

[T-prop]

Has anyone been recalled from the furloughed 1900 class??

 

[DrewBlows]

Has anyone been recalled from the furloughed 1900 class??

No. Many of have found work elsewhere. I have no idea how many will come back when recalled.

 

[fam62c]

What does Delta really Gain here?

It seems to me that in the current environment of high fuel prices and revenue decline that Delta might actually be better off financially to just pay the leases on the 328's and let them sit instead of having anyone fly them. Here's what I mean: If DAL makes a deal with Skyway they will need to sign a typical code-share agreement that will guarantee Skyway a profit to provide the service. DAL takes all of the fiancial risk and Skyway is guaranteed a profit. With a deal like this DAL is not only paying for the aircraft leases but they will paying for EVERYTHING that Skyway needs to run the operation plus a profit for Skyway on top of it. In order for DAL to make a profit off of this they need to hope that after they pay off Skyway each month there is enough revenue left over for DAL to profit on the deal. What are the odds of this in the current cost/fare environment? The next question is whether or not there will even be enough revenue to make the Skyway deal less of a loss for DAL than simply letting the 328's sit and rot. Also, it's been a long time since ACA was operating this service so all of the gaps in the DAL express schedule are already filled. It would have made sense to make a seamless transition from ACA to Skyway but what sense does it make now? Why does DAL Express really need an additional partner with 32 seat jets that offer little flexibility due to limited seating and range? DAL Express doesn't even want more 50 seaters, they want 70 seaters, why would they want 32 seaters? Where are the profitible routes that are just sitting there waiting for 328Jet service?

In the end this will be an accounting decision: Is it better to blow $X each month on the 328 leases or to blow $X+ dollars each month on the Skyway deal and hope to get enough revenue to reduce the total loss to $X-? Maybe Skyway would be best to concentrate on growing it's Midwest Connect operation (one of the only regionals that has actually gotten smaller since 9-11) instead of sitting around endlessly waiting for DAL to decide their future.

 

[Donsa320]

It seems to me that in the current environment of high fuel prices and revenue decline that Delta might actually be better off financially to just pay the leases on the 328's and let them sit instead of having anyone fly them. Here's what I mean: If DAL makes a deal with Skyway they will need to sign a typical code-share agreement that will guarantee Skyway a profit to provide the service. DAL takes all of the fiancial risk and Skyway is guaranteed a profit. With a deal like this DAL is not only paying for the aircraft leases but they will paying for EVERYTHING that Skyway needs to run the operation plus a profit for Skyway on top of it. In order for DAL to make a profit off of this they need to hope that after they pay off Skyway each month there is enough revenue left over for DAL to profit on the deal. What are the odds of this in the current cost/fare environment? The next question is whether or not there will even be enough revenue to make the Skyway deal less of a loss for DAL than simply letting the 328's sit and rot. Also, it's been a long time since ACA was operating this service so all of the gaps in the DAL express schedule are already filled. It would have made sense to make a seamless transition from ACA to Skyway but what sense does it make now? Why does DAL Express really need an additional partner with 32 seat jets that offer little flexibility due to limited seating and range? DAL Express doesn't even want more 50 seaters, they want 70 seaters, why would they want 32 seaters? Where are the profitible routes that are just sitting there waiting for 328Jet service?

In the end this will be an accounting decision: Is it better to blow $X each month on the 328 leases or to blow $X+ dollars each month on the Skyway deal and hope to get enough revenue to reduce the total loss to $X-? Maybe Skyway would be best to concentrate on growing it's Midwest Connect operation (one of the only regionals that has actually gotten smaller since 9-11) instead of sitting around endlessly waiting for DAL to decide their future.

You know, I think you could ask that question about every commuter in the fee for departure scheme. For example; Comair seems to be "profitable" but Mother Delta bleeds cash. A Northwest commuter lands here in MKE on a FRIDAY night and has only EIGHT passengers on a LGA/MKE segment. Lordy, what a profit margin that would have to have to make anything for NWA. Since the mainline fares are so low, one cannot say that the "trunk" fares can subsidize the feed as they did years ago. It does not appear that there are anywhere near enough dollars in the mainline fares for that anymore.

So what you say about the D-328's may be true. I'll be darned if I can figure out how any fee for departure operation is worth it. And at 15cents a seat mile cost, commuter jets are hard pressed to make a dime on their own. Witness Independence.
Next, the small jets get bigger to lower the seat mile costs and the small towns suffer a loss of service again because they are to small to support the bigger jets. Arg!

I am now standing by for incoming. <vbg>

~DC

 

[jobear]

Next, the small jets get bigger to lower the seat mile costs and the small towns suffer a loss of service again because they are to small to support the bigger jets. Arg!

I am now standing by for incoming. <vbg>

~DC

Darn deregulation , as you said alot of the smaller cities serviced will either loose service or they will have to make substantial improvements to the airport & terminals to handle the "large RJ's".

Jobear

 

[Scapegoat]

SKyway Getting bigger??

Great call on Skyway (not) getting bigger!

Skyway needs to expand its service. There will be plenty of routes open in the midwest with Chicago Express leaving the market. Its my understanding that Skyway is waiting to purchase the 328's if the deal does not go thru. I would not bet a lot of $$ on this happening. I mean how long have we been talking about this issue.

I think that DAL will just sit on the leases until they file. They may have some protection from a bankruptcy judge then. I think that DAL will emerge in a short time after some protection from deals such as the 328's.

 

[b82rez]

Skyway will get more planes when Midwest recieves its last 717 in 2006. Midwest Air Group lacks the smarts and guts to expand both companies at the same time.

 

[greenpickle]

What he said

You know, I think you could ask that question about every commuter in the fee for departure scheme. For example; Comair seems to be "profitable" but Mother Delta bleeds cash. A Northwest commuter lands here in MKE on a FRIDAY night and has only EIGHT passengers on a LGA/MKE segment. Lordy, what a profit margin that would have to have to make anything for NWA. Since the mainline fares are so low, one cannot say that the "trunk" fares can subsidize the feed as they did years ago. It does not appear that there are anywhere near enough dollars in the mainline fares for that anymore.

So what you say about the D-328's may be true. I'll be darned if I can figure out how any fee for departure operation is worth it. And at 15cents a seat mile cost, commuter jets are hard pressed to make a dime on their own. Witness Independence.
Next, the small jets get bigger to lower the seat mile costs and the small towns suffer a loss of service again because they are to small to support the bigger jets. Arg!

I am now standing by for incoming. <vbg>

~DC

Donsa & fam62- I couldnt agree more. With that said I would advise you that this forum is no place for such a reasonable and well thought out commentary such as the one you offered. Please use some discretion in the future

 

[Donsa320]

Pickle and others,thanks.

Here are some more thoughts:

Back in the late 1930's through the 1940's many of the smaller towns and cities in the USA were served by what are now "major" airlines. For example, AA bounced across lower Michigan from DTW to MDW making stops, Capitol, nee Pennsylvania Central, did the same in northern lower Michigan both with DC-3s and later with Convairs and Viscounts. As the "local service" airlines formed in the very late 1940's and early 50's those routes were awarded to them. So North Central, Lake Central, Ozark and so on, 13 in number, replaced the "trunk" airlines all over the USA on the "local" routes. Anything the "majors" felt did not make any money for them went to the "locals". The CAB insured that the "locals" would make money by subsidizing them. At the end of that era, 1978, as deregulation came about, the total subsidy bill for all 13 locals was a measly 35 million dollars annually. This scheme lives on as the essential air service proviso. I do not know what the dollar amount comes to now-a-days.

The local service carrier pilots joined ALPA of course and won contracts with certain features that the trunk pilots had. One of the most important, besides decent pay, was trip and duty rigs. I have friends on the commuters that fly a short leg or two and then sit for 24 hours or more in a motel before returning to base on a short leg or two and get no pay besides the short actual. A rotten waste of time but with a 1 for 3 trip rig at least you'd get 8 hours pay for 2 days of your life.
Stuff like that was all won by us and lost through deregulation and the formation of "commuter" airlines.

There was not a great push, I guess, by commuter pilots for better contracts because the commuters were just stepping stones to the majors. Of course features like trip and duty rigs can cost money and management loathes them. But now, as pilots may spend a career in the commuters, the battles will commence for better contracts. Good luck.

~DC

 

[propsare4boats]

optimstically pessimistic

Hopefully the deal with Delta will go through. The maintanence is finished, so maybe the waiting and guessing will come to an end soon.

There was what sounded like a back up plan for those airplanes. Skyway put in a bid to United to fly those thirty 328's if we could obtain them from Delta. That would be if Delta and Skyway don't reach an agreement. It was said that United was very interested Skyway.

Also, if all thirty of those airplanes hit the open market, the remaining 328's value would go way down and be reasonable to acquire and operate. Provided that they are in good condition. Then Kansas City would be all jet service.

Just drinking the kool-aid
mmm