Skydive airplane accident

[moxiepilot]

Fuel interuption or contamination would be my guess. The sputtering would occur because you take off with "ignition" on. Introduce enough air bubbles or contamination in the fuel supply and you'll get intermittant popping and surging, which the dictionary describes as "sputter".

i disagree, but then again what do I know?

 

[FN FAL]

i disagree, but then again what do I know?

Yea, maybe the sputtering sound was the stall horn going off? Latest news is saying there was no evidence of engine power loss.

The cause of the crash is unknown, and the Federal Aviation Administration is investigating, Henderson said.

"There has been no reported evidence of any loss of power [to the aircraft] at this time," said Benjie R. Coleman, an FAA investigator.

The Pilatus Porter is a "maneuverable and dependable aircraft," said Bruce Hart, a DeLand pilot and sky diver with 127 jumps.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

PT6A, which as you know is a three stage axial, single stage centrifugal compressor driven by a single stage reaction turbine

Sorry to get technical, but someone else started it...

Not all PT-6 engines have a single stage reaction turbine. Many of the higher powered models have two stage hot sections, which may just, in the right conditions, make them more susceptible to sputtering.


Bonus points if my friend can fill me in on the purpose of the original turbine engine the PT-6 is based on and what consequences sputtering may have caused in this application.

 

[Traderd]

I'm curious how this "sputtering sound" will come into play. That particular pilatus is hooked up with a PT6A, which as you know is a three stage axial, single stage centrifugal compressor driven by a single stage reaction turbine.

IMO recips sputter, turbines whine so now I just wait for the NTSB prelim because evidentally the media is doing their typical reporting on sensationalism rather than actually gathering facts

Want even more confusion? The article says:

"Witnesses said they saw the plane sputter shortly after takeoff around 3:15 p.m. and crash onto the runway."

If you are curious how a turbine can "sputter", I am even more curious how one can "see" an aircraft "sputter".

 

[Gutenberg]

was it an oil rig generator?
and maybe the sputtering was the prop tips hitting the dirt.

 

[Swass]

Hey, listen here jackasses.........

Don't be jumping to no conclusions as that is not the way professionals behave. :laugh:

 

[Stifler's Mom]

So you're saying someone swaped out the PT-6 with a piston engine and now there is a big government conspiracy?

George Bush (in best Jerry Seinfeld "Newman" voice)

 

[Skyboy722]

It seems that in any aircraft accident where there is a witness, someone says they heard the thing "sputter". I personally have no idea how a turbine could, nor have I ever heard, a turbine sputter. But whatever...
As far as flying near dropzones goes, whenever you guys see that little parachute on the VFR sectional, steer clear. Especially the upwind side of the field. Also, many DZs monitor the published unicom freq for the field, and all should broadcast warnings prior to jump. But if you ignore it all, and fly right over a DZ on a Saturday afternoon, you shouldn't be surprised to see canopies deploying in your windshield. Nor should you be surprised when the jump plane chases you down...

 

[GravityHater]

re: the million or more discussions we have had on FI about accidents and the associated comments about not discussing the events:

here is my sodding opinion about it:

I don't think anything will ever stop people from discussing accidents. Such discussion is just human nature. You know; can't stop the gears from turning!
Yes, hearing something you know to be wrong or unproven can be aggravating. But you don't have to come here, and if you do, you don't have to listen.
Most of us just want to learn from the accident, so as to have something we can take home from it, to help keep ourselves safe. It is a primal fear all aviators live with; and the discussion is therapeutic in a way. For the most part, it is not an attempt to dis the people or pilots involved whatsoever. So what if someone guesses at a cause. If they make it clear they have no direct knowledge (hell, very few do in the early stages anyway) and they do not actively spreading rumors, I see no harm.

So you will never stop speculation, (much as I will never stop people from trying to censor the discussion!)

Lighten up! Breathe some Helium!

 

[FN FAL]

It seems that in any aircraft accident where there is a witness, someone says they heard the thing "sputter". I personally have no idea how a turbine could, nor have I ever heard, a turbine sputter. But whatever...

Uhhhh, Boy of the Sky, popping noises are easily defined under Merriam-Webster as "sputter". Just because you saw a plane appear to "sputter" in the movie "Fandango" it doesn't mean that all planes have to "sputter" exactly the same way.

 

[FN FAL]

Want even more confusion? The article says:

"Witnesses said they saw the plane sputter shortly after takeoff around 3:15 p.m. and crash onto the runway."

If you are curious how a turbine can "sputter", I am even more curious how one can "see" an aircraft "sputter".

Simple, he saw flames of the re-light comming out of the exhaust stack in intermittant belches of flame.

Next time you are in your buddies TBM or Pilatus PC 12, get him discombobulated during the after landing checklist. When he reaches up to grab the fuel condition lever, distract him enough to pull it into "idle cut-off". When he freaks out and jambs it back up into low or high idle, watch for the flame thrower to come out of the exhaust stack and tell me that don't look like one big sputter.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Simple, he saw flames of the re-light comming out of the exhaust stack in intermittant belches of flame.

Riiiiight. Maybe the "witness" was just another toothless, mouth-breathing, inbread with a 40oz and a wifebeater looking for his 15 minutes...

I've been involved with the media subsequent to a couple of unfortunate aircraft accidents and make no mistake, reporters will turn over every rock until they find someone who "saw" the plane "sputter" "catch on fire" or get hit my lightning or a missile or otherwise support whatever sensational BS angle that will get the most viewers to tune in at 10.

 

[moxiepilot]

Sorry to get technical, but someone else started it...

Not all PT-6 engines have a single stage reaction turbine. Many of the higher powered models have two stage hot sections, which may just, in the right conditions, make them more susceptible to sputtering.


Bonus points if my friend can fill me in on the purpose of the original turbine engine the PT-6 is based on and what consequences sputtering may have caused in this application.

Point 1, you're right about the multiple stages; i still hate the semantics of sputtering....

Point 2, I believe it was inresponse to the world wars that a helicopter engine was to be created which was not a recip engine.

 

[FN FAL]

Riiiiight. Maybe the "witness" was just another toothless, mouth-breathing, inbread with a 40oz and a wifebeater looking for his 15 minutes...

Maybe he was a Democrat at that. Thank you for calling.

 

[TonyC]

Riiiiight. Maybe the "witness" was just another toothless, mouth-breathing, inbread with a 40oz and a wifebeater looking for his 15 minutes...

I'm a little confused by your kitchen references.

First, while there are hundreds upon hundreds of types of bread, I've never heard of "inbread." I read that there are over 300 types of bread in Germany alone. Of course, we all know that there are numerous types of French bread. There are leavened breads, and unleavened flat breads. Even here in the culinary-deprived South, we know of sourdough bread, white bread, wheat bread, rye bread... we know of dinner rolls, sweet rolls, cinnamon rolls, and bagels... occassionally we'll even have a pita with a Greek or Mexican specialty. But I've never heard of inbread.

Might it be a contemporary blending of the word bread and the use of "in" that means popular or currently chic? Last week rye bread was inbread, but this week raisin bread is inbread? (And rye bread is now outbread?)

Of course, I've never heard of any kind of bread being literally toothless (another colloquial reference, no doubt) and I've never heard of bread "mouth-breathing." Some breads are bland, and bland can sometimes be described as "having no bite," so I'm guessing that "toothless" might relate to the lack of interesting flavor. And many breads are best stored where air can circulate around it, so the breathing reference might have some relationship to that, but the mouth part of that method suggests less than sanitary conditions, at least in my mind.

Secondly, I've never heard of something called a "wifebeater" that might compose or be possessed by a bread. You say the inbread has a 40oz, which presumably is a reference to a low-quality beer, so we're given a peek at the ingredients list of this elusive inbread. I'm thinking of a sour-dough type bread with a long fermentation phase, but that's just a guess. But where does this so-called wifebeater come in? Is it anything like an eggbeater, perhaps a utensil used to mix or rotate the ingredients at some point in the process? Is it a tool designed for the diminutive frame that has hence been labeled, in that loving, sexist tradition, after the fairer of the matrimonial pair? Can we see a picture of this utensil on a website?


I have no idea how any bread could witness an airplane incident or look for 15 minutes, but perhaps that will become evident when we learn more about this special bread. I, for one, am anxious to discover even more bread talents.







.

 

[V-STALL]

.

I wonder if he'll get a Violation for being over-gross and out of CG

.

Hey Doug- I didn't know that you worked for the NTSB? That's a big one to "ASSUME" with no valid info! :smash:

 

[FracCapt]

i have noticed the same thing. in fact, when i was working on my private, i went from DAB to MLB for a solo X-C on V-3 and on the way back up 4 parachutes popped out of the clouds a few miles ahead of me. i immediately turned about 90 degrees left and went westbound, paying close attention to dunn. it too is an uncontrolled airport. dangerous. i was talking to ATC with VFR flight following, and i didn't hear a peep. i told ATC and also then monitored the CTAF freq for dunn to make sure no other jumpers were gonna show up unexpectedly 2 miles in front of me.

You sure that they came THROUGH clouds, and not between clouds? Also, what ATC facility were you talking to? The pilots report(and are required to do so) jumpers away and whatever call prior to that the specific ATC facility wants(usually 3 minutes to jumpers away). At Dunn, that report is usually made to Jax center... If you didn't get a call from ATC warning you of skydiving activities....whose fault is that? The jumpers? The pilots? Yours? ATC's?

Why are you flying directly over an airport with a very active skydiving operation? I can't tell you how many times I was in the door at 15,000' over Dunn spotting the load and had to call a go around because some idiot in a Cessna was flying directly over the DZ, totally oblivious to the fact that there is an active DZ there.

Keep in mind that from the time a group exits until they are on the ground can be up to about 7 minutes for sport jumpers, and 10+ minutes for tandems. Canopies are deployed between 2,000' and 6,000', depending on type of jump and experience level. If you're cruising along at 2500', moving along at 2 miles per minute....you could be 10 miles away when they exit, and still encounter tandem parachutes at your altitude when you cross the airport.

Learn to avoid airports that have active skydiving operations unless you intend to land there. You only have to turn a few degrees to go around them. Jumpers will exit over or upwind of the airport(winds aloft, not surface winds), generally about a mile or less. The stronger the winds, the further upwind they will exit.

 

[moxiepilot]

too funny tonyc

 

[FN FAL]

Hey Doug- I didn't know that you worked for the NTSB? That's a big one to "ASSUME" with no valid info! :smash:

Exactly.

 

[wrxpilot]

Why are you flying directly over an airport with a very active skydiving operation? I can't tell you how many times I was in the door at 15,000' over Dunn spotting the load and had to call a go around because some idiot in a Cessna was flying directly over the DZ, totally oblivious to the fact that there is an active DZ there.

FracCapt,

He said he was flying on V3. I don't think there's supposed to be too many jump ops on the airway.