Skydive airplane accident

[rvsm410]

Over here on the east coast, (DUNN Airpark) I witness the jump school planes going through the cloud many times, through cloud layers and then see jumpers dropped through the clouds....this area is close to V-3 and we have alot of passing traffic, I have seen what looks to be close calls between jumper and these aircraft...I rarely hear any radio com from the jump plane....Also it seems to be a game to beat the jumpers back to the runway as the Caravan or King Air makes very steep spirling decents over the city...I can't help but notice them and wonder how long its to be before the wings come off one.....I doubt they are filing an IFR flight plan, and also wonder how long it will be before we have "Deland" type accident over here.

 

[moxiepilot]

So you're saying someone swaped out the PT-6 with a piston engine and now there is a big government conspiracy?

Yes, exactly.

My point was that the media never gets anything straight. How does a free turbine sputter? What really caused the accident?

I just get irritated with the media, they rarely do anything productive for society.

 

[cforst513]

Over here on the east coast, (DUNN Airpark) I witness the jump school planes going through the cloud many times, through cloud layers and then see jumpers dropped through the clouds....this area is close to V-3 and we have alot of passing traffic, I have seen what looks to be close calls between jumper and these aircraft...I rarely hear any radio com from the jump plane....Also it seems to be a game to beat the jumpers back to the runway as the Caravan or King Air makes very steep spirling decents over the city...I can't help but notice them and wonder how long its to be before the wings come off one.....I doubt they are filing an IFR flight plan, and also wonder how long it will be before we have "Deland" type accident over here.

i have noticed the same thing. in fact, when i was working on my private, i went from DAB to MLB for a solo X-C on V-3 and on the way back up 4 parachutes popped out of the clouds a few miles ahead of me. i immediately turned about 90 degrees left and went westbound, paying close attention to dunn. it too is an uncontrolled airport. dangerous. i was talking to ATC with VFR flight following, and i didn't hear a peep. i told ATC and also then monitored the CTAF freq for dunn to make sure no other jumpers were gonna show up unexpectedly 2 miles in front of me.

Funny story, though: when i was training for my instrument, i was getting ready to intercept the ILS at MLB. the female air traffic controller warned me about "multiple targets in the area". my reply? "uh, yes ma'am, i'll be keeping an eye out for skydivers". my instructor immediately died laughing and the ATC gal got back on, chuckling, and said "well. N9XXXX, there are no skydivers in the area, but keep looking! thanks for your help!" i guess i shouldn't think of skydivers as targets, eh?

 

[cforst513]

A few more incidents at Deland:
http://www.wesh.com/news/4052743/detail.html
http://www.wesh.com/news/2788562/detail.html
http://www.wesh.com/news/1388498/detail.html

 

[FN FAL]

My point was that the media never gets anything straight. How does a free turbine sputter?

Fuel interuption or contamination would be my guess. The sputtering would occur because you take off with "ignition" on. Introduce enough air bubbles or contamination in the fuel supply and you'll get intermittant popping and surging, which the dictionary describes as "sputter".

Main Entry: 1sput·ter
Pronunciation: 'sp&-t&r
Function: verb
Etymology: akin to Dutch sputteren to sputter
transitive senses
1 : to spit or squirt from the mouth with explosive sounds
2 : to utter hastily or explosively in confusion or excitement
3 : to dislodge (atoms) from the surface of a material by collision with high energy particles; also : to deposit (a metallic film) by such a process
intransitive senses
1 : to spit or squirt particles of food or saliva noisily from the mouth
2 : to speak explosively or confusedly in anger or excitement
3 : to make explosive popping sounds
- sput·ter·er noun

 

[moxiepilot]

Fuel interuption or contamination would be my guess. The sputtering would occur because you take off with "ignition" on. Introduce enough air bubbles or contamination in the fuel supply and you'll get intermittant popping and surging, which the dictionary describes as "sputter".

i disagree, but then again what do I know?

 

[FN FAL]

i disagree, but then again what do I know?

Yea, maybe the sputtering sound was the stall horn going off? Latest news is saying there was no evidence of engine power loss.

The cause of the crash is unknown, and the Federal Aviation Administration is investigating, Henderson said.

"There has been no reported evidence of any loss of power [to the aircraft] at this time," said Benjie R. Coleman, an FAA investigator.

The Pilatus Porter is a "maneuverable and dependable aircraft," said Bruce Hart, a DeLand pilot and sky diver with 127 jumps.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

PT6A, which as you know is a three stage axial, single stage centrifugal compressor driven by a single stage reaction turbine

Sorry to get technical, but someone else started it...

Not all PT-6 engines have a single stage reaction turbine. Many of the higher powered models have two stage hot sections, which may just, in the right conditions, make them more susceptible to sputtering.


Bonus points if my friend can fill me in on the purpose of the original turbine engine the PT-6 is based on and what consequences sputtering may have caused in this application.

 

[Traderd]

I'm curious how this "sputtering sound" will come into play. That particular pilatus is hooked up with a PT6A, which as you know is a three stage axial, single stage centrifugal compressor driven by a single stage reaction turbine.

IMO recips sputter, turbines whine so now I just wait for the NTSB prelim because evidentally the media is doing their typical reporting on sensationalism rather than actually gathering facts

Want even more confusion? The article says:

"Witnesses said they saw the plane sputter shortly after takeoff around 3:15 p.m. and crash onto the runway."

If you are curious how a turbine can "sputter", I am even more curious how one can "see" an aircraft "sputter".

 

[Gutenberg]

was it an oil rig generator?
and maybe the sputtering was the prop tips hitting the dirt.

 

[Swass]

Hey, listen here jackasses.........

Don't be jumping to no conclusions as that is not the way professionals behave. :laugh:

 

[Stifler's Mom]

So you're saying someone swaped out the PT-6 with a piston engine and now there is a big government conspiracy?

George Bush (in best Jerry Seinfeld "Newman" voice)

 

[Skyboy722]

It seems that in any aircraft accident where there is a witness, someone says they heard the thing "sputter". I personally have no idea how a turbine could, nor have I ever heard, a turbine sputter. But whatever...
As far as flying near dropzones goes, whenever you guys see that little parachute on the VFR sectional, steer clear. Especially the upwind side of the field. Also, many DZs monitor the published unicom freq for the field, and all should broadcast warnings prior to jump. But if you ignore it all, and fly right over a DZ on a Saturday afternoon, you shouldn't be surprised to see canopies deploying in your windshield. Nor should you be surprised when the jump plane chases you down...

 

[GravityHater]

re: the million or more discussions we have had on FI about accidents and the associated comments about not discussing the events:

here is my sodding opinion about it:

I don't think anything will ever stop people from discussing accidents. Such discussion is just human nature. You know; can't stop the gears from turning!
Yes, hearing something you know to be wrong or unproven can be aggravating. But you don't have to come here, and if you do, you don't have to listen.
Most of us just want to learn from the accident, so as to have something we can take home from it, to help keep ourselves safe. It is a primal fear all aviators live with; and the discussion is therapeutic in a way. For the most part, it is not an attempt to dis the people or pilots involved whatsoever. So what if someone guesses at a cause. If they make it clear they have no direct knowledge (hell, very few do in the early stages anyway) and they do not actively spreading rumors, I see no harm.

So you will never stop speculation, (much as I will never stop people from trying to censor the discussion!)

Lighten up! Breathe some Helium!

 

[FN FAL]

It seems that in any aircraft accident where there is a witness, someone says they heard the thing "sputter". I personally have no idea how a turbine could, nor have I ever heard, a turbine sputter. But whatever...

Uhhhh, Boy of the Sky, popping noises are easily defined under Merriam-Webster as "sputter". Just because you saw a plane appear to "sputter" in the movie "Fandango" it doesn't mean that all planes have to "sputter" exactly the same way.