Skybus the Latest

[brainhurts]

They had a good product and while their pay might have been a little low to start, if they had been sucessful, those guys would have been millionaires on their options and the pay would have gone up. You have to start somewhere. Competition is a good thing.

You slay me.

 

[relief tube]

yeah, I think we need to take away instructordude's post privileges out of fairness to those who have common sense.

 

[pipe]

GOOD RIDDANCE!

A puss-filled boil has just been lanced from the giant buttocks that is the present-day US air-carrier industry.

For everyone who has a contract that uses industry comparisons to set your hourly rates - congratulations. Everyone gets a raise!

No sympathy for any pilots here. Maybe some for other support employees who didn't know what they were getting involved in. The pilots knew.

VA next.

PIPE

 

[Fly4hire]

Moderator: please move to LCC/National forum

 

[Wiskey Driver]

GOOD RIDDANCE!

A puss-filled boil has just been lanced from the giant buttocks that is the present-day US air-carrier industry.

For everyone who has a contract that uses industry comparisons to set your hourly rates - congratulations. Everyone gets a raise!

No sympathy for any pilots here. Maybe some for other support employees who didn't know what they were getting involved in. The pilots knew.

VA next.

PIPE

No no no! That's usapa you're refering to!!

WD

 

[instructordude]

yeah, I think we need to take away instructordude's post privileges out of fairness to those who have common sense.

Common sense? Somebody trying to feed his family by going to work has quite a bit in my eyes.

Maybe some of these guys were at ACA? Oh yeah, they should have gone to FedEx, Airtran, Southwest or UPS instead of Skybus. Got some news for everybody, NOT EVERYBODY WINS THE LOTTERY AND GETS ON WITH Fedex, Airtran, Southwest or UPS. Bottomline, you have to take what is available and take care of your family.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

I am sad to see them go too. I was hoping to get a left seat job there, instead of starting off as some lousy gear-jerker at one of the legacy airlines. I thought Skybus was a cool idea.

Plus pilots made more first year there than at CAL. AND they paid medical benefits to new hires.. Unlike bottom feeder CAL.

 

[NEDude]

Maybe some of these guys were at ACA? Oh yeah, they should have gone to FedEx, Airtran, Southwest or UPS instead of Skybus. Got some news for everybody, NOT EVERYBODY WINS THE LOTTERY AND GETS ON WITH Fedex, Airtran, Southwest or UPS. Bottomline, you have to take what is available and take care of your family.
__________________

While no fan of Skybus, I have got to second this. I know from personal experience that not everyone will get the brass ring of an established major airline job. I have watched friends, many with far less experience (and some with black marks as well) get jobs at Southwest, Continental, Delta, AirTran, Northwest, United, UPS and USAirways, while my app goes mostly un-noticed. I know several others in the same boat as me. Who knows why. But the fact is for those who want to make a living in aviation, an established major may not be in the cards for one reason or another.

If you truly believe in capitalism and a free market economy, then you have no right to hold a grudge against anyone taking a job at a place like Skybus.

I am not sad that Skybus is gone (hey maybe my company can pick up some of their long sought after A319s really cheap now). But as Skybus was a stand-alone company, not operating as an alter-ego, and their pilots were not crossing any picket lines or flying struck work, I cannot hold a grudge against their pilots for trying to catch a break in a free market.

 

[mvedepo]

GOOD RIDDANCE!

A puss-filled boil has just been lanced from the giant buttocks that is the present-day US air-carrier industry.

For everyone who has a contract that uses industry comparisons to set your hourly rates - congratulations. Everyone gets a raise!

No sympathy for any pilots here. Maybe some for other support employees who didn't know what they were getting involved in. The pilots knew.

VA next.

PIPE

Hey, didn't you post about taking a risk yourself?

Something like this:

"That was the reality a few years ago when I was there (after giving up on my own major airline seniority number).

I guess my point is that everyone at every airline has had to do their own risk/reward computation. Many at f9 took big risks and were handsomely rewarded. I fear that the risk is rearing it's head now."

You were an idiot to give up your seniority number. Too bad it worked out for you. It would have been nice to come on here and watch people revel in your misfortune.

I don't care WHERE you collect a paycheck. There's no airline that's immune to this. Any of the airlines operating today could be gone within a year.

Good luck to ALL the pilots out of jobs.

 

[mvedepo]

Maybe some of these guys were at ACA? Oh yeah, they should have gone to FedEx, Airtran, Southwest or UPS instead of Skybus. Got some news for everybody, NOT EVERYBODY WINS THE LOTTERY AND GETS ON WITH Fedex, Airtran, Southwest or UPS. Bottomline, you have to take what is available and take care of your family.

EXACTLY. These idiots on here who call the guys at "sub par" airlines selfish need to go take a look in the mirror. These guys don't give a crap about the industry as a whole as they claim. They are as selfish as anyone. They care about one thing. The $ amount deposited into the bank on payday. They would rather the guys that don't get the "dream" jobs just quit flying instead of work where they can work so they their $160/hr rate won't be at risk. Get off your high horses. I can assure you that a majority of the Skybus guys would have gladly taken a class date with the FedEx's and UPS's of the world. But guess what....they didn't have the option. They took the best option afforded to them. You can't fault anyone for that.

 

[Junkflyer]

I'd be more than happy to work at FedEx/Ups, but was not invited. If Skybus was the "best option available" maybe those guys didn't look at enough options. By working for these true bottom feeders you don't anyone a favor. Sure I'm an lowly freight dog, but we are nowhere near the likes of Skybus, Mesa etc.

 

[mvedepo]

I'd be more than happy to work at FedEx/Ups, but was not invited. If Skybus was the "best option available" maybe those guys didn't look at enough options. By working for these true bottom feeders you don't anyone a favor. Sure I'm an lowly freight dog, but we are nowhere near the likes of Skybus, Mesa etc.

Maybe these guys can't be way for up to 6 weeks at a time flying international freight. I had to give it up when I got full custody of my 2 year old daughter. And yes I did look at Skybus as an option as well as many others. Had F9 not panned out for me I would have gone to Skybus. You don't know what the details are that go into why the Skybus pilot's went to work there. I just don't understand why people on here feel they are in a position to judge other pilots that are just trying to make the most of this crazy industry.

Also lets not forget at the company you work for a 747 captain could make as little as $74 / hr. Your pay is lower in the 47 then UA, NWA, Atlas, Polar, and Southern. In fact the only pay scale you are better then that I can find is Tradewinds and Evergreen. So be careful going around calling people bottom feeders.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

You know what's absent from all of these Skybus threads:


Skybus pilots.


If they thought it (the job, the pay rate, the biz model etc etc) was such a good idea, wouldn't we have heard from them by now?


crickets ...

 

[AirCobra]

How about an end to the "holier than thou" attitude from some of you guys, especially the regional airline pilots. Skybus is the culprit for driving down wages? How about TSA, Skywest, and Mesa. When I left United for a corporate gig, regional airlines were doing 40% of United domestic flying. Routes flown by A-319's and 737's with 4000 hour pilots making $60-70k were taken over by guys flying ERJ's and RJ's making $20-30K. So for someone at a regional airline to single out pilots who just lost there job and to gloat is both sad and unprofessional.

Am I bitter? No. I understand ecomics and this being the price we pay for a free market. It seems some of you hate any kind of competition for your job but are more than willing to fly for an airline that can get you ahead at a cost to someone else.

I still would like someone to explain how TSA taking flying away from mainline United was totally okay, but GO Jet taking flying away from TSA was not. How about Skywest? Non-union airline taking away flying from a union airline.

When Northwest parks its DC-9's who do you think takes over that flying? Probably Compass who pays way less than Northwest. Where are the anti-Compass threads? My bet is there aren't any because you guys are all trying to get jobs there, so you can fly an E-Jet for 10 more bucks an hour.

I can go on. About once a month I fly the same US Airways Flight. It has always been a 737. Guess what, its now Shuttle America.

So before you laugh at the demise of other pilots, or plan on having a fight in a St. Louis parking lot, first look at the plank in your own eye before pointing at the speck in your brothers eye.

 

[spinproof]

You know what's absent from all of these Skybus threads:


Skybus pilots.


If they thought it (the job, the pay rate, the biz model etc etc) was such a good idea, wouldn't we have heard from them by now?


crickets ...

I'm not a Rocket Surgeon but I'll take a stab at it. I believe they feel bad enough without being told how stupid they were in believing this business model would work and prosper.
But I know you know that because being a ballastic physician takes years of study and practice....

 

[spinproof]

How about an end to the "holier than thou" attitude from some of you guys, especially the regional airline pilots. Skybus is the culprit for driving down wages? How about TSA, Skywest, and Mesa. When I left United for a corporate gig, regional airlines were doing 40% of United domestic flying. Routes flown by A-319's and 737's with 4000 hour pilots making $60-70k were taken over by guys flying ERJ's and RJ's making $20-30K. So for someone at a regional airline to single out pilots who just lost there job and to gloat is both sad and unprofessional.

Am I bitter? No. I understand ecomics and this being the price we pay for a free market. It seems some of you hate any kind of competition for your job but are more than willing to fly for an airline that can get you ahead at a cost to someone else.

I still would like someone to explain how TSA taking flying away from mainline United was totally okay, but GO Jet taking flying away from TSA was not. How about Skywest? Non-union airline taking away flying from a union airline.

When Northwest parks its DC-9's who do you think takes over that flying? Probably Compass who pays way less than Northwest. Where are the anti-Compass threads? My bet is there aren't any because you guys are all trying to get jobs there, so you can fly an E-Jet for 10 more bucks an hour.

I can go on. About once a month I fly the same US Airways Flight. It has always been a 737. Guess what, its now Shuttle America.

So before you laugh at the demise of other pilots, or plan on having a fight in a St. Louis parking lot, first look at the plank in your own eye before pointing at the speck in your brothers eye.

Well said!

 

[mvedepo]

How about an end to the "holier than thou" attitude from some of you guys, especially the regional airline pilots. Skybus is the culprit for driving down wages? How about TSA, Skywest, and Mesa. When I left United for a corporate gig, regional airlines were doing 40% of United domestic flying. Routes flown by A-319's and 737's with 4000 hour pilots making $60-70k were taken over by guys flying ERJ's and RJ's making $20-30K. So for someone at a regional airline to single out pilots who just lost there job and to gloat is both sad and unprofessional.

Am I bitter? No. I understand ecomics and this being the price we pay for a free market. It seems some of you hate any kind of competition for your job but are more than willing to fly for an airline that can get you ahead at a cost to someone else.

I still would like someone to explain how TSA taking flying away from mainline United was totally okay, but GO Jet taking flying away from TSA was not. How about Skywest? Non-union airline taking away flying from a union airline.

When Northwest parks its DC-9's who do you think takes over that flying? Probably Compass who pays way less than Northwest. Where are the anti-Compass threads? My bet is there aren't any because you guys are all trying to get jobs there, so you can fly an E-Jet for 10 more bucks an hour.

I can go on. About once a month I fly the same US Airways Flight. It has always been a 737. Guess what, its now Shuttle America.

So before you laugh at the demise of other pilots, or plan on having a fight in a St. Louis parking lot, first look at the plank in your own eye before pointing at the speck in your brothers eye.

Exactly!

 

[rtmcfi]

Skybus is the culprit for driving down wages?

Nope, fortunately they died off quickly. Had they prospered, hell yes they would have been the culprit for any further compensation depression.

How about TSA, Skywest, and Mesa. When I left United for a corporate gig, regional airlines were doing 40% of United domestic flying. Routes flown by A-319's and 737's with 4000 hour pilots making $60-70k were taken over by guys flying ERJ's and RJ's making $20-30K.

Congrats on getting out of the rat race! However, this is apples to oranges. The RJ folks were not undercutting mainline to get to fly a jet. The mainline folks outsourced it to the RJ operators. RJs became an entry level position. Skybus was a different situation altogether. The pilots there were intentionally, and voluntarily undercutting everyone to a huge degree. The pilots that went their could have gone many other places for the same, or even better compensation.

So for someone at a regional airline to single out pilots who just lost there job and to gloat is both sad and unprofessional.

It would be happy and professional if a Mainline or corporate pilot was doing the gloating?
I don't really like the fact that these guys are on the street. However, it's not like these guys were not warned. They chose the selfish route, and now they can lie in their bed. I don't really want any of them on my team when it comes to contract negotiation time. I really hope they leave the industry. If they will fly the Airbus as a captain for 65K, how much do you suppose they would fly a bizjet for?

It seems some of you hate any kind of competition for your job but are more than willing to fly for an airline that can get you ahead at a cost to someone else.

Nope, I don't hate competition at all. If someone else can do it better, so be it. I do have a problem with guys whoring themselves out, and undercutting all of labors years of negotiations.

I still would like someone to explain how TSA taking flying away from mainline United was totally okay, but GO Jet taking flying away from TSA was not. How about Skywest? Non-union airline taking away flying from a union airline.

Again, the regionals didn't take anything away. The mainline folks traded that flying away. TSA took what you wiilingly gave. Ho-jets was completly different. They were created during labor negotiations with TSA. The sole reason for their existance is to circumvent scope clauses. Other airlines were hiring rapidly during hojets begining. Every pilot that went there had other options. They made a choice, and they will have to live with it.

When Northwest parks its DC-9's who do you think takes over that flying? Probably Compass who pays way less than Northwest. Where are the anti-Compass threads? My bet is there aren't any because you guys are all trying to get jobs there, so you can fly an E-Jet for 10 more bucks an hour.

Again, compass was created by NWA. The pilots (foolishly I think) traded away those airframes. Compass is represented by the NWA MEC. They are a willing creation of mainline.

I feel very little empathy for those that went to Skybus. They undercut my wages. They made it difficult for pilots to make any advances in compensation. They cost real airlines revenue. Skybus pilots didn't think about the sacrifices made by generations of pilots before them. All of the Skybus pilots took a selfish gamble and lost. They thought only of themselves, and only short-term. I should mourn them why?

 

[motch]

MV..

Since you decide to mock my military service, I'll ask you to at least get it right.

Looking at my profile you would see my position as FO/FE.
I am a C5 FE, though I was a LM on a Herk (slicks and Talon 1's!) at one time. Either way... required crewmember though as an FE I do log my time as it's a flightdeck crewmember.

What service were you in?

RMTCFI answered all the other questions that people had so I won't go on about that. (Great post BTW>>!)

 

[Sparse]

I feel very little empathy for those that went to Skybus. They undercut my wages. They made it difficult for pilots to make any advances in compensation. They cost real airlines revenue. Skybus pilots didn't think about the sacrifices made by generations of pilots before them. All of the Skybus pilots took a selfish gamble and lost. They thought only of themselves, and only short-term. I should mourn them why?

I don't know who you work for but what Skybus did is just the latest chapter in a very long book. What is a real airline anyway? Is Airtran? Didn't Valuejet (Airtran) undercut Delta wages? How about JB? Didn't they undercut Delta and American wages? This spiral started a long time ago.