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Single-Engine Climb requirements

  • Thread starter Thread starter asolo
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Again, don't confuse issues...just because it's "not required for certification" doesn't mean that it "can't". Some can, some can't...you just can't use the ones that can't for that particular operation if it's required.

Check out my OpSpecs post above.

Fly safe!

David

Yes, I understand about Ops Specs. My question is, is there anything in the FARs that mandates a Part 23 aircraft to demonstrate SE climb performance while under 135 and, if there is, can you point me to it?

Much obliged.
 
Check out Appendix A to part 135


Thank you, that's exactly what I was after. If I understand the appendix correctly, almost no light twin would qualify at any meaningful weight. The King Airs, Barons etc are another matter.
 
Yes, I understand about Ops Specs. My question is, is there anything in the FARs that mandates a Part 23 aircraft to demonstrate SE climb performance while under 135 and, if there is, can you point me to it?

Much obliged.
119.7 mandates OpSpecs.

From the OpSpecs of the last operator I flew for:
For takeoffs when the RVR is less than touchdown zone RVR and rollout RVR authorized in subparagraph b(2) (if selected), each airplane used must be operated at a takeoff weight which permits the airplane to achieve the performance equivalent to the takeoff performance specified in 14CFR section 135.367 for reciprocating power airplanes...
Granted, it's not a regulation specifically requiring engine-out performance, but effectively it does.

Fly safe!

David
 
Forgive me;

IFR (below the "other" column on the Jepp SID) you have to make your chosen SID climb gradient, single engine, correct? Legally, maybe not, but if you wanna live to be an old pilot--yes. VFR, it's see and avoid, right y'all? There are many stories out there that we all have--and that's how we learn, by others' experience. So by all means, talk away, it's more fun that way--here goes my attempt:

One time, at band camp, I was flying outta OOBI (gulf), P-3 at night, very heavy, and it was hot and humid (of course). The aft observer reported sparks coming out of the engine, and we had to shut it down (it was safe to do so--we had altitude--which was nice). We dumped fuel, came back, and made an overweight landing (which was ok to do in an emergency 3 engine landing). If not shut down, the engine would have ate itself very soon, the mechs told us the next morning via the borescope inspection. Scary stuff.

I also had an engine roll back in a kingair to min fuel flow just before takeoff when I was ligning up on the runway in KBOI. If that had happened just a few seconds later, it would have been interesting. We aborted and had to taxi back pretty much single engine.

These two situations, in an IFR environment would have resulted in complying with the SID climb gradient single engine. Don't bet it won't happen to you. I have more examples, that time I hit 7 ducks at once in a P-3 while practicing a engine failure after V1 comes to mind. The airplane shuddered. All the maintainers on the ramp stared as we came to a stop in the chocks, guts everywhere. Damn birds.. that was unexpected. Aint that the way it is... Passengers will wait when it's a safety/legal issue. Pick your chief pilots brain, ask the other guys what they have done, and don't be shy about it. You know how pilots are, we love to talk airplanes--all of us. No worries.

The dark, ugly part of this business is when you have to make a safety decision (backed up by regs/ actual safety issues, aircraft limits, your limits, etc...) and your company doesn't back you up. None of us want to delay or cancel a flight, but when you have to, so be it. PAX get home itis or the commpany telling you to go when it's not safe to do so happens quite alot, and you have to stick to your guns. I didn't like that part of the business.

Fly Safe,

SR
 
Well, I don't think the P-3 is relevant here, being as it is 4-engine and all. You were complying with three-engine climb gradient requirements there.
 
lighten up, francis

Well, I don't think the P-3 is relevant here, being as it is 4-engine and all. You were complying with three-engine climb gradient requirements there.

Oh, I see............


Well, I did write too much (enthusiasm-sorry), so maybe those with ADD (flyboy) had problems deciphering it all. Hmmmm... Short version is -- plan for the worst -- $hit happens.

Seeya
 
Appendix A. 10 or more passengers? Probably not in a Baron or Kingair.

The newer king air's have a climb gradient chart and that will imply that you probably cannot climb much if you can't make those gradients, and none if you lose an engine. Doesn't mean you have to use it by regulation. As previously mentioned in the other posts, you may have part 25 charts for the part 23 airplanes, that are not mandatory unless required by your ops specs or company SOP's.

Be careful.

Regulatory wise, probably nothing there.
 
What is the Ops Spec reference here C0?? or whatever. I am curious where this comes from. As far as I know ours does not include this, but I would like to know where this comes from so that I might check more closely.

jw
 
What is the Ops Spec reference here C0?? or whatever. I am curious where this comes from. As far as I know ours does not include this, but I would like to know where this comes from so that I might check more closely.

jw
C079, lower than standard takeoffs...the climb requirement kicks in when you get below a certain vis/rvr.

Fly safe!

David
 

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